Spells: Flame Lick not producing Agro/Threat

[Awsten_Tx]

I think this issue is coupled with SK's disease cloud issue. Rangers are not able snap agro since patch using flame lick. I am not sure if this issue was intentional or not since I didnt see anything that pertained to it.

Can we get some clarification on if its broken or intentional?

[Octavian]

As someone who mains an SK and has recently failed to pull aggro on a mob half my level from players half my level (trying to tank for them to help out) with disease cloud, I'm gonna go ahead and say this feels very, very broken.

Relying on Shroud for aggro isn't nearly enough. Cycling the two spells was always needed to maintain aggro, especially from raid DPS.

Was the aggro nerf in line with something that happened on classic? As I recall from years on live, SK/Pal always had pretty decent snap aggro with DC/Shroud and stuns/heals respectively, while warriors could maintain aggro with weap procs.

Seems all of these methods of aggro have been fundamentally destroyed.

[long.liam]

Originally Posted by Octavian [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As someone who mains an SK and has recently failed to pull aggro on a mob half my level from players half my level (trying to tank for them to help out) with disease cloud, I'm gonna go ahead and say this feels very, very broken.

Relying on Shroud for aggro isn't nearly enough. Cycling the two spells was always needed to maintain aggro, especially from raid DPS.

Was the aggro nerf in line with something that happened on classic? As I recall from years on live, SK/Pal always had pretty decent snap aggro with DC/Shroud and stuns/heals respectively, while warriors could maintain aggro with weap procs.

Seems all of these methods of aggro have been fundamentally destroyed.

Shadow Vortex and Clinging Darkness Should be good enough. Also, the hate produced for these spells scale with Mob HP. The hate is Mob HP/15 up to 1200 for spell and 400 for proc. I've tested this with mutiple classes to confirm that Shadow Vortex and Clining Darkness produced very little hate on low HP mobs, but 1200 hate each on High HP mobs. The only thing that doesn't seem to be working correcly right now is the Counter Hate is gone for some reason. Any Disease or Poison based dots are not producing counter hate right now. No idea when or If this will ever get fixed. I also tested Flamelick on druid and it seems to working as well. It just again these all scale with mob hp, so low hp mobs these spells don't work very well. I believe this is working as intended though.

[YendorLootmonkey]

There's plenty of documentation from Classic/Kunark/Velious that Paladins/SKs/Rangers were the kings of snap aggro... it was one of our main utilities (despite the fact that rangers were not plate class, so once we grabbed the mob off the caster, we had to root it or hope for some quick heals), so I'm sure that the overall impact was unintentional.

Dolalin can probably quickly dig up enough old excerpts during the timeline to support Flame Lick / Snare had a much higher aggro that it currently does.

[long.liam]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's plenty of documentation from Classic/Kunark/Velious that Paladins/SKs/Rangers were the kings of snap aggro... it was one of our main utilities (despite the fact that rangers were not plate class, so once we grabbed the mob off the caster, we had to root it or hope for some quick heals), so I'm sure that the overall impact was unintentional.

Dolalin can probably quickly dig up enough old excerpts during the timeline to support Flame Lick / Snare had a much higher aggro that it currently does.

Pretty difficult to get accurrate Idea of how much hate these spells produced in Era from anecdotal posts. Would need hard numbers to justify any kind of change. Majority of the posts I've seen are Vague and don't actually give any hard numbers to backup claims. I'm skeptical, but who knows maybe someone can find a posts that has actual data in it, instead of Vague anecdotes about spells.

[long.liam]

Of course, from what I tested the only thing that doesn't seem correct is the counter hate is gone. Everything else seems correct. Feel free to test it yourself and prove me wrong.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by long.liam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pretty difficult to get accurrate Idea of how much hate these spells produced in Era from anecdotal posts. Would need hard numbers to justify any kind of change. Majority of the posts I've seen are Vague and don't actually give any hard numbers to backup claims. I'm skeptical, but who knows maybe someone can find a posts that has actual data in it, instead of Vague anecdotes about spells.

Uthgaard already did this work:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...67&postcount=7

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...72&postcount=8

I don't know what hard numbers were used to make the change in the first place, but it is clear that the resulting impact does not match anyone's experience during the target timespan of this project.

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by long.liam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pretty difficult to get accurrate Idea of how much hate these spells produced in Era from anecdotal posts. Would need hard numbers to justify any kind of change. Majority of the posts I've seen are Vague and don't actually give any hard numbers to backup claims.

Vague or not, a general consensus did exist and few, if any, posts refute it. While actual numbers would be ideal, a more pragmatic quick fix would be to compare the spells in question to other spells as they are now and were described in firsthand classic accounts and adjust them accordingly for the time being, before making more accurate changes over time as the information becomes available.

Originally Posted by long.liam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm skeptical, but who knows maybe someone can find a posts that has actual data in it, instead of Vague anecdotes about spells.

https://project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5570