JBB, is it really that good?

[FickleFiend]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, FSI is only relevant when mobs bash you. Bash has 3 components:
1. Damage
2. Chance to interrupt spell
3. Chance to Stun (100% chance to interrupt spell)

FSI removes the chance to stun. This means you always have a chance to finish casting your spells when you get bashed, you never have to worry about the stun (auto interrupt). This is if you are facing the target. If they hit you from behind, you can still be stunned.

I know that part of it but was wondering if there's some magic I'm missing. I have a 60 Troll Shm and honestly the stuns aren't really a big thing. It's the push I find more annoying. So stand in corner I guess.

Cheers!

Edit... And to stay on topic, JBB is a sweet toy, along the lines of the Lumi stick for Druid. Great tool, but hardly necessary. Just slow down and enjoy the experience of leveling!

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by FickleFiend [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I know that part of it but was wondering if there's some magic I'm missing. I have a 60 Troll Shm and honestly the stuns aren't really a big thing. It's the push I find more annoying. So stand in corner I guess.

Cheers!

Push shouldn't be an issue if you are slowing the mob. As a 60 Shaman I am not sure what situations you are getting into where you are getting pushed enough to be interrupted.

When fighting single mobs you getting pushed very little when they are slowed.

When fighting multiple mobs, you are rooting, not face tanking multiple mobs.

Fighting in water is the only thing I can think of, but that is always more difficult as a caster.

[FickleFiend]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Push shouldn't be an issue if you are slowing the mob. As a 60 Shaman I am not sure what situations you are getting into where you are getting pushed enough to be interrupted.

When fighting single mobs you getting pushed very little when they are slowed.

When fighting multiple mobs, you are rooting, not face tanking multiple mobs.

Fighting in water is the only thing I can think of, but that is always more difficult as a caster.

You're right, I'm not getting pushed a lot, but it's more annoying than any stuns I see. I can go many fights without a single stun landing but I'm also one of the "AC is King" kind of players. My real point here is that too many people really oversell the importance of FSI at 60. It's probably a little more useful than an extra stack of food on a halfling as they eat more, but not quite as useful as Dwarf barrel roll. Somewhere in between.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by FickleFiend [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're right, I'm not getting pushed a lot, but it's more annoying than any stuns I see. I can go many fights without a single stun landing but I'm also one of the "AC is King" kind of players. My real point here is that too many people really oversell the importance of FSI at 60. It's probably a little more useful than an extra stack of food on a halfling as they eat more, but not quite as useful as Dwarf barrel roll. Somewhere in between.

I think the misconception here is you assume we are "overselling it". I have said it many times that no racial is necessary when you have Torpor.

I simply want to let people know which racial is best with Torpor if you care about min maxing. "Better" doesn't mean it is leagues ahead. It just means better.

Torpor just gives you too much regeneration for racial regeneration to matter much anymore. A Shaman with Fungi Staff, Fungi Tunic, and Torpor is Regenerating at 334 (Ogre) or 342 (Troll). The difference between the two is 2.3%. Getting 2.3% more HP per hour means saving 1.4 minutes on average per hour regenerating HP. This is assuming you are never at max HP, so the reality is less.

Before Torpor it is a 23% increase, which is pretty big when you are chain killing mobs for XP.

[FickleFiend]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think the misconception here is you assume we are "overselling it". I have said it many times that no racial is necessary when you have Torpor.

I simply want to let people know which racial is best with Torpor if you care about min maxing. "Better" doesn't mean it is leagues ahead. It just means better.

Torpor just gives you too much regeneration for racial regeneration to matter much anymore. A Shaman with Fungi Staff, Fungi Tunic, and Torpor is Regenerating at 334 (Ogre) or 342 (Troll). The difference between the two is 2.3%. Getting 2.3% more HP per hour means saving 1.4 minutes on average per hour regenerating HP. This is assuming you are never at max HP, so the reality is less.

Before Torpor it is a 23% increase, which is pretty big when you are chain killing mobs for XP.

No misconceptions from me, it's thread after thread, year after year you come into any conversation about Shaman and derail it into an FSI is the bestest thing. Not even making this up. Now you're throwing out stats on Regen which neither the OP nor I even mentioned just to prove your point. I do believe this was a question about the JBB, not FSI, not Regen, not Iksar scales or Barb hairy hats.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by FickleFiend [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No misconceptions from me, it's thread after thread, year after year you come into any conversation about Shaman and derail it into an FSI is the bestest thing. Not even making this up. Now you're throwing out stats on Regen which neither the OP nor I even mentioned just to prove your point. I do believe this was a question about the JBB, not FSI, not Regen, not Iksar scales or Barb hairy hats.

You do realize that I didn't start the FSI conversation here, right?

ya.dingus derailed the thread by talking about it. I am simply responding to him so people don't get wrong information.

Please show me a thread where I actually just randomly started talking about FSI without cause.

[FickleFiend]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

...
I am simply responding to him so people don't get wrong information.
...

This right here is the problem. You seem to think you're the be all end all for information in this game on this class. It's all a little aspy in how vehement you get on being right and everyone else being wrong and baiting people into discussing it so you can prove they're wrong 'cause you say so. In any thread it pops up, you're there taking over.

If that's what you need to validate your existence then more power to you. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by FickleFiend [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This right here is the problem. You seem to think you're the be all end all for information in this game on this class. It's all a little aspy in how vehement you get on being right and everyone else being wrong and baiting people into discussing it so you can prove they're wrong 'cause you say so. In any thread it pops up, you're there taking over.

If that's what you need to validate your existence then more power to you. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not at all. I don't care about being right or wrong. I have been proven wrong plenty of times on these forums. I just want to help new players who can easily be manipulated by bad information.

The problem is people like yourself think they are right, and get angry when someone says something they don't agree with. If you were actually concerned about "derailing a thread", you would be going after ya.dingus for derailing it.

If everybody just ignored someone who was off-topic in a thread, it would be very easy for people to just post nonsense in every thread to try and spread bad information. People who are new to the game won't be able to tell the difference between the truth and a falsehood.

So I have a choice: go off-topic to refute the bad information, or ignore it and let people be misled. I prefer the former, you seem to prefer the latter.

[ya.dingus]

Originally Posted by skorge [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Blah blah blah, accuses me of not reading his post, doesn't realize he didn't read mine.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist

Doesn't realize that bash doesn't always stun on every hit

Originally Posted by https://wiki.project1999.com/Sakuragi%27s_Warrior_Guide

mobs get their secondary attack every 8 seconds, bash instead instead of kick 75% of the time, hit 50% of the time, and stun 50% of their hits. So if the mob isn't hasted you'll be spending roughly 2 seconds out of 40 (5%) of your time stunned. Depending on how fast your weapons are, that's some 2-3% of your threat and damage (your weapons will be ready as soon as you aren't stunned, so you don't lose all of the time) which isn't gamebreaking but is certainly nice.

Like neither of you get it, I actually posted the source documentation to the original warrior post that had the chances per hit and broke the math down to the 5% margin you avoid being "stunned"

You two literally don't understand the following;

1. Bash does not always stun. It has a chance to stun. It's not guaranteed
2. It also has a less chance of hitting you than a normal hit
3. If a mob is lower than you in level by a decent amount, even if it bashes, it has a reduced chance to stun the lower level the monster is.


I'm literally feeding you guys the source material and you're not reading it.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by ya.dingus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Like neither of you get it, I actually posted the source documentation to the original warrior post that had the chances per hit and broke the math down to the 5% margin you avoid being "stunned"

You two literally don't understand the following;

1. Bash does not always stun. It has a chance to stun. It's not guaranteed
2. It also has a less chance of hitting you than a normal hit
3. If a mob is lower than you in level by a decent amount, even if it bashes, it has a reduced chance to stun the lower level the monster is.


I'm literally feeding you guys the source material and you're not reading it.

You simply aren't reading, which is why you think we don't get it, and why you think your evidence is good.

I posted this earlier:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, FSI is only relevant when mobs bash you. Bash has 3 components:
1. Damage
2. Chance to interrupt spell
3. Chance to Stun (100% chance to interrupt spell)

FSI removes the chance to stun. This means you always have a chance to finish casting your spells when you get bashed, you never have to worry about the stun (auto interrupt). This is if you are facing the target. If they hit you from behind, you can still be stunned.

And I showed the source code for EQEMU in the other thread you made in the tank section (which you also didn't read):

 

		bool can_stun = false;
		int stunbash_chance = 0; // bonus
		if (attacker) {
			if (skill_used == EQ::skills::SkillBash) {
				can_stun = true;
				if (attacker->IsClient())
					stunbash_chance = attacker->spellbonuses.StunBashChance +
					attacker->itembonuses.StunBashChance +
					attacker->aabonuses.StunBashChance;
			}
			else if (skill_used == EQ::skills::SkillKick &&
				(attacker->GetLevel() > 55 || attacker->IsNPC()) && GetClass() == WARRIOR) {
				can_stun = true;
			}

			bool is_immune_to_frontal_stun = false;

			if (IsBot() || IsClient() || IsMerc()) {
				if (
					IsPlayerClass(GetClass()) &&
					RuleI(Combat, FrontalStunImmunityClasses) & GetPlayerClassBit(GetClass())
				) {
					is_immune_to_frontal_stun = true;
				}


				if (
					(
						IsPlayerRace(GetBaseRace()) &&
						RuleI(Combat, FrontalStunImmunityRaces) & GetPlayerRaceBit(GetBaseRace())
					) ||
					GetBaseRace() == RACE_OGGOK_CITIZEN_93
				) {
					is_immune_to_frontal_stun = true;
				}
			} else if (IsNPC()) {
				if (
					RuleB(Combat, NPCsUseFrontalStunImmunityClasses) &&
					IsPlayerClass(GetClass()) &&
					RuleI(Combat, FrontalStunImmunityClasses) & GetPlayerClassBit(GetClass())
				) {
					is_immune_to_frontal_stun = true;
				}

				if (
					RuleB(Combat, NPCsUseFrontalStunImmunityRaces) &&
					(
						(
							IsPlayerRace(GetBaseRace()) &&
							RuleI(Combat, FrontalStunImmunityRaces) & GetPlayerRaceBit(GetBaseRace())
						) ||
						GetBaseRace() == RACE_OGGOK_CITIZEN_93
					)
				) {
					is_immune_to_frontal_stun = true;
				}
			}

			if (
				is_immune_to_frontal_stun &&
				!attacker->BehindMob(this, attacker->GetX(), attacker->GetY())
			) {
				can_stun = false;
			}

			if (GetSpecialAbility(UNSTUNABLE)) {
				can_stun = false;
			}
		}
		if (can_stun) {
			int bashsave_roll = zone->random.Int(0, 100);
			if (bashsave_roll > 98 || bashsave_roll > (55 - stunbash_chance)) {
				// did stun -- roll other resists
				// SE_FrontalStunResist description says any angle now a days
				int stun_resist2 = spellbonuses.FrontalStunResist + itembonuses.FrontalStunResist +
					aabonuses.FrontalStunResist;
				if (zone->random.Int(1, 100) > stun_resist2) {
					// stun resist 2 failed
					// time to check SE_StunResist and mod2 stun resist
					int stun_resist =
						spellbonuses.StunResist + itembonuses.StunResist + aabonuses.StunResist;
					if (zone->random.Int(0, 100) >= stun_resist) {
						// did stun
						// nothing else to check!
						Stun(2000); // straight 2 seconds every time
					}
					else {
						// stun resist passed!
						if (IsClient())
							MessageString(Chat::Stun, SHAKE_OFF_STUN);
					}
				}
				else {
					// stun resist 2 passed!
					if (IsClient())
						MessageString(Chat::Stun, AVOID_STUNNING_BLOW);
				}
			}
			else {
				// main stun failed -- extra interrupt roll
				if (IsCasting() &&
					!EQ::ValueWithin(casting_spell_id, 859, 1023)) // these spells are excluded
																	  // 90% chance >< -- stun immune won't reach this branch though :(
					if (zone->random.Int(0, 9) > 1)
						InterruptSpell();
			}
		}

		if (spell_id != SPELL_UNKNOWN && !iBuffTic) {
			//see if root will break
			if (IsRooted() && !FromDamageShield)  // neotoyko: only spells cancel root
				TryRootFadeByDamage(buffslot, attacker);
		}
		else if (spell_id == SPELL_UNKNOWN)
		{
			//increment chances of interrupting
			if (IsCasting()) { //shouldnt interrupt on regular spell damage
				attacked_count++;
				LogCombat("Melee attack while casting. Attack count [{}]", attacked_count);
			}
		}

I have also shown videos where it shows I would save more HP with FSI preventing a stun than HP regen:

https://youtu.be/igpbLuNe0ls?t=440

https://youtu.be/uEgFcImQ9XU?t=18

You didn't even read https://wiki.project1999.com/Sakuragi%27s_Warrior_Guide correctly. He is saying if a fight lasts 40 seconds and you get stunned for 2 seconds, the 2 seconds of being stunned is 5% of the total 40 seconds. A Warrior only cares about the raw stun time, since that is time they can't swing their weapons. Spell casters lose more time when getting stunned, because you also have to take into account the amount of time it takes to recast a spell. If you get stunned 4 seconds in to casting Malo, you end up wasting a minimum of 6 seconds (2 from stun and 4 from the spell you didn't finish).

If Sakuragi's math is correct:

1. Over 80 seconds a mob would use their secondary attack 10 times.
2. 8/10 of those secondary attacks would be bashes
3. 4/10 of those secondary attacks would hit
4. 2/10 of those bashes would stun

This means 1 stunning bash every 40 seconds, so I assume he thinks the stuns last for 2 seconds. Based on the source code I showed above, that seems correct.