Shamwowi's Shaman Race Guide

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I usually admit when I am wrong though[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] That simply tends to get lost in the sea of baseless accusations I can easily rebut, due to a lack of evidence.

It seems to me you havent played a Shaman, if you think JBB is only a leveling toy. It is still quite useful at 60. The resoning is very simple: You cannot buy or generate spell slots. JBB gives you one of your best Direct Damage spells for free, without a spell gem. This is WAY more valuable than a bit of damage mitigation, because Shamans already have one of the best damage mitigation systems in the game with Torpor and a 75% slow. See my Cliff Golems video for an example on how you can use JBB to do damage to a mob, while not staying on the top of their hate list. This allows your pet to tank summoning mobs, saving you WAY more HP than an Iksar would: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=umuVBewCNgY

You're giving JBB superiority in this situation because of the safety net it's giving you when fighting a cliff golem [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]. That's subjective. Better for you might mean safer, better for someone else might mean just face tanking a golem w/ pox/bane and not bothering with the measly JBB dps to get it killed faster as the previous poster mentioned. Again, just your opinion against another's [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I look forward to this tally weight revision though in your guide! If I like it I might ask you to create an SK racial guide, another hot topic!

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Sinbillibnis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I appreciate the time and effort you've put into both your guide and this conversation, as well as the passion you have for the class and game. I don't agree with a couple of comments here. Throughout this thread you have been defensive and counter argued whenever someone has a different opinion than yours. I'm not here to say you're wrong, but to assume someone hasn't played a shaman bc they have a different opinion of you is a bit narcissistic, a pattern you've shown throughout your responses

And while a very minor topic, I believe it's a stretch to indicate a jbb is a quite useful at 60, I'd agree it's more of a toy once you have torpor, pox and bane. Regarding your example, you can keep pox and bane rolling on a cliff golem without having agro the full time. Agro management between you and your pet on these types of mobs is heavily influenced by resists. If it's take 4+ casts to land slow, your pet is unlikely to pull agro throughout.

And if you're allowing your pet to hold agro the full time, sure you're saving your hit points, but only because you're extending the fight by restricting your damage output. What's the point? Can you do it that way, sure, it's a game, play it however you want. But if you're min/maxing and trying to minimize the dmg you take, you're doing so by minimizing your threat output, which to an extent means you're limiting your damage output or at least not maximizing your capabilities. If you're not using the item to maximize your capabilities, doesn't that mean it's more of an item for fun than need?

It's a fun item, I leaned on it heavily from 45 until 60, I loved my jbb and keep one just for fun. If I'm at a difficult camp or fighting a tough mob, 8 seconds to land a jbb is never going to be a priority over my other options.

I know you've put in far more time and done more as a shaman that I have, but i have been playing a shaman for a few years, so I like to think I at least have a fair opinion on the class. .

Sorry for any typos, on my phone and not taking the time to edit.

Maybe I wasn't clear, and I do assume you read the guide before you post. No racial bonus or item is necessary. The idea is to factually determine which is more useful, even if the end result is none are necessary, which is the case. This is still useful information for some people, who want to get the most out of their character. I would rather have all the facts on the table, so people can make the most informed decision possible.

The simple truth is 8 extra regen per tick and a bit of extra AC is very marginal damage reduction for a Shaman. This is because most difficult mobs a Shaman fights will either kill you quickly if they remain unslowed, or you have an extreme amount of damage mitigation due to the mob being slowed, plus having Torpor. This means the Iksar/Troll damage mitigation bonuses are almost moot. Gaining a free spell slot is impossible in this game, so JBB is the superior item overall because of that, especially considering the barely noticeable damage mitigation gains.

Being able to have a pet tank a summoning mob, as shown in the video, is a better source of damage mitigation, because you are not getting interrupted at critical moments in the fight. This means you have a much easier time controlling the fight. Disease and Poison spells have very high threat generation, so you would need to stagger the casts quite a bit to take this approach without JBB. JBB allows you to do damage during that downtime, while generating less threat. Is it a necessary strategy? Of course not. But having a JBB gives you more options and strategies, where extra damage mitigation does next to nothing most of the time. Can damage mitigation be superior in specific cases? Of course. Again, the question is which gives you the best bang for your buck, not can it ever be useful.

[Sinbillibnis]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're giving JBB superiority in this situation because of the safety net it's giving you when fighting a cliff golem [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]. That's subjective. Better for you might mean safer, better for someone else might mean just face tanking a golem w/ pox/bane and not bothering with the measly JBB dps to get it killed faster as the previous poster mentioned. Again, just your opinion against another's [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I look forward to this tally weight revision though in your guide! If I like it I might ask you to create an SK racial guide, another hot topic!

I would add if casting jbb delays reapplying bane, pox, or epic the jbb may not be adding incremental damage. Between resists, the short duration of bane, and fairly high mana cost, reslow resists, etc I don't find myself with 8 seconds available to cast jbb regularly through fights with high level mobs. And if you do, you're certainly pulling agro off your pet. Pet tanking even without jbb is finicky as torpor's slow reduces the pet's threat. You're bound to get agro intermittently due to the pet losing threat bc of slows and increased agro due to resists

I can certainly see your point, I just believe it's very subjective. A lot of what's discussed in the guide and this thread is subjective. Sharing your opinion helps others learn and is badass. I know I've learned quite a bit from these forums, including your guide.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Sinbillibnis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would add if casting jbb delays reapplying bane, pox, or epic the jbb may not be adding incremental damage. Between resists, the short duration of bane, and fairly high mana cost, reslow resists, etc I don't find myself with 8 seconds available to cast jbb regularly through fights with high level mobs. And if you do, you're certainly pulling agro off your pet. Pet tanking even without jbb is finicky as torpor's slow reduces the pet's threat. You're bound to get agro intermittently due to the pet losing threat bc of slows and increased agro due to resists

I can certainly see your point, I just believe it's very subjective. A lot of what's discussed in the guide and this thread is subjective. Sharing your opinion helps others learn and is badass. I know I've learned quite a bit from these forums, including your guide.

I agree, sharing information is great! The problem is most of the time, people just regurgitate false information and do not back it up. I am not saying you are. On the contrary, I appreciate the response[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I just want the information to remain clear, and a lot of people keep trying to muddy it up. I would love to see examples of Iksar AC and Regen doing something amazing, for example, but unfortunately those bonuses are the easiest to quntify, but somehow subject to the most tall tales[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[XeroKill]

Originally Posted by Bondrake [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lol. Absolutely pathetic. Actually taking time to write and argue about the guide being too long, bad, etc. It just shows how many people are so unhappy with their sad pathetic lives that they need to take their anger and frustration out on other people trying to help. How about you take a look at the guide he wrote and if you think it's shit or something else that's in your constant negative filled mind, stop reading it and move on.

I love it when people can't see their own hypocrisy.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by XeroKill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I love it when people can't see their own hypocrisy.

I don't think you fully understand what hypocrisy is, but you do love to throw the term around[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] What he posted is not hypocritical at all.

[XeroKill]

That is why I highlighted the hypocrisy. It makes it easier for the simpletons to follow along. Do let me spell it out for you though:

hy·poc·ri·sy
/həˈpäkrəsē/

Hypocrisy is the practice of engaging in the same behavior or activity for which one criticizes another.

Who is the bigger loser? The one that takes the time out of his day to speak critically of you or your guide, or the one who takes the time out of his day to do the same to the ones that spoke critically of you or your guide?

Not sure why you claim that I "throw the term around" since it is the first time I have used it in this conversation... Where is your evidence, sir!? Then again, you do love the sound of your own keyboard so you had to find something... ANYTHING to say.

Let no post go unchallenged!

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by XeroKill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That is why I highlighted the hypocrisy. It makes it easier for the simpletons to follow along. Do let me spell it out for you though:

hy·poc·ri·sy
/həˈpäkrəsē/

Hypocrisy is the practice of engaging in the same behavior or activity for which one criticizes another.

Who is the bigger loser? The one that takes the time out of his day to speak critically of you or your guide, or the one who takes the time out of his day to do the same to the ones that spoke critically of you or your guide?

Not sure why you claim that I "throw the term around" since it is the first time I have used it in this conversation... Where is your evidence, sir!? Then again, you do love the sound of your own keyboard so you had to find something... ANYTHING to say.

Let no post go unchallenged!

I do apologize, it was irony you used incorrectly earlier. The reason why it isn't hypocritical is because you are assuming he read my guide, thought it was bad, and then posted a negative comment about it. None of what he said implies any of that, you just assumed it to make an off topic point. I never called anyone a loser or implied that, I am just pointing out the flaw in your argument so you can learn for next time.

I don't mind if people point out flaws in my guide. I want you to! The problem is people seem to assume that if they point something out, their point is correct. That is not true, and I usually have the evidence to disprove their claim. If you read through this thread, you will see where I was corrected and fixed things.

[Penish]

Overinvested and sick, welcome to p99. lol

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Penish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Overinvested and sick, welcome to p99. lol

Why bother posting this?