Project 1999

Go Back   Project 1999 > General Community > Off Topic

View Poll Results: Do you live in one of America's inner cities?
Yes, I live in a but I got inner city 41 18.55%
Yes, I live in a crime infested inner city 35 15.84%
Yes, I live in a burning crime infested inner city 33 14.93%
Bush burned the crime infested towers 153 69.23%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 221. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #12361  
Old 06-21-2018, 12:47 AM
MagpieRockyl MagpieRockyl is offline
Banned


Join Date: May 2018
Location: ostraya
Posts: 493
Default

Juris has big lobes clearly has multiple degrees on the subject. Concede filbert.
  #12362  
Old 06-21-2018, 12:59 AM
JurisDictum JurisDictum is offline
Banned


Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,791
Default

His point was that the soviet system relied on oppression and forced labor.

I guess if I was a member of the Soviet Union 50 years ago I might give a shit. Today... What does that have to do with fucking anything? Can you even find a actual Leninist alive today?

I look at it as interesting history kind of like learning about the Roman Empire or the War of Roses. But its omnipresence in every discussion about anything left of Trump is a clear sign of propaganda.

The American system would not function without prisons (more than any in the world but in quantity and in % of population), a corrupt media, and violent suppression of third world slave labor.

And just like the USSR -- most of the benefits to this highly immoral system concentrate at the top.

If you want to use that lens, knock yourself out. Any jackass can kick down a barn but it takes a lot more to build one.
Last edited by JurisDictum; 06-21-2018 at 01:09 AM..
  #12363  
Old 06-21-2018, 01:14 AM
skarlorn skarlorn is offline
Banned


Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: The Misty Thicket
Posts: 4,863
Default

My point is that a lot of what you were saying was wrong and there's evidence to back it up. Glad we are on the same page now.

Grats on your hike big j. now THATS news
  #12364  
Old 06-21-2018, 01:21 AM
JurisDictum JurisDictum is offline
Banned


Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,791
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by skarlorn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
My point is that a lot of what you were saying was wrong and there's evidence to back it up. Glad we are on the same page now.

Grats on your hike big j. now THATS news
So your saying the working conditions under the Czar are nothing like they were under Stalin?

What is this have to do with Stalin's command ability during the war?
  #12365  
Old 06-21-2018, 01:55 AM
JurisDictum JurisDictum is offline
Banned


Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,791
Default

There like 5 thoughts in my head here.

1) it doesn't matter. This is just a relatively pointless discussion about history that has no bearing on modern politics.

2) All the problems of Russia are dumped on Stalin and the Soviet system in a desperate way. We can't just talk about shit Stalin did wrong like the Red Terror...we got to pretend he invented poverty in Russia. When in reality, it was reduced. That's just a fact. In general, things got better far more rapidly than either people like Trump or people like Vladimir Putin would ever admit. Despite all the horror (which at the time was kept secret to the population as much as possible). It's interesting that its very important to western propaganda to frame Stalin's policies as making the country more poor than it would have been otherwise. When the more obvious point is that he killed a shitload of people.

3) Stalin was popular after death because he won an extremely difficult war. He did this by shooting military leaders among other things...apparently is unacceptable tragedy when he killed military leaders -- but the deaths of huge swaths of the male population are to be expected. This was the notion I was trying to tease out.

4) After Stalin died -- Russia chose to reform and become less of a killing machine. The problem is, the soviet system required bureaucrats and workers to be horrified of being charged with disloyalty . Otherwise, when they get away with corruption America-style, its even worse than in America because of the far reach of the government, and the inability to fire bad workers.

5) China chose not to revise everything the way Russia chose to...They didn't publically criticize how Mao fucked everything up and was morally bankrupt. They certainly didn't try to pretend he didn't win the war for them. Which of these two countries seem better off to you today?

My point is not that China is a lovely place to live or that the USSR was. My point is this idea that leftwing policies cause poverty has been never been substantiated. What has been, is that leftwing extremists kill people...but that's not a very useful point for corporate elites to publicize...is it?
Last edited by JurisDictum; 06-21-2018 at 02:11 AM..
  #12366  
Old 06-21-2018, 02:16 AM
Nibblewitz Nibblewitz is offline
Fire Giant

Nibblewitz's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 705
Default

The Gulag was the only part of socialism that the Russians got right.
  #12367  
Old 06-21-2018, 04:00 AM
JurisDictum JurisDictum is offline
Banned


Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,791
Default

What we're talking about for those not in the know

Quote:
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, winner of the Nobel Prize in Literature, who survived eight years of Gulag incarceration, gave the term its international repute with the publication of The Gulag Archipelago in 1973. The author likened the scattered camps to "a chain of islands" and as an eyewitness he described the Gulag as a system where people were worked to death.[7] Some scholars support this view,[8][9] though this claim is controversial, given that the vast majority of people who entered the Gulag came out alive, with the exception of the war years.[10][11][12] Although one writer, citing pre-1991 materials, claims that most prisoners in the gulag were killed,[13] Natalya Reshetovskaya, the wife of Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, said in her memoirs that The Gulag Archipelago was based on "campfire folklore" as opposed to objective facts.[14] Similarly, historian Stephen G. Wheatcroft asserts that it is essentially a "literary and political work".[15] Numerous other accounts from survivors state otherwise and the Mitrokhin Archive claimed that these memoirs were part of a KGB campaign, orchestrated by Yuri Andropov in 1974, to discredit Solzhenitsyn.[16] However, this archive itself has its veracity in doubt; among other, more practical issues, by the same token with which Vasili Mitrokhin claimed the Soviet government would obviously be interested in discrediting Solzhenitsyn, Western governments would have as much interest in lending him credence
Its also important to note : the big drop was that Lenin started labor camps -- it wasn't just all Stalin. See at the time, it was popular to say "oh man, if only Lenin didn't die and that total psycho Stalin didn't take over, this would all be so much better." This, however, is not a very popular opinion anymore...to put it lightly.

It's worth noting that we were -- ya know -- during prime cold war years (1973) when the west came out and portrayed this book as the best ever written and totally authoritative (it was a story not a sociological work with citations). So I guess you can believe that...I don't see why the fuck you would.

Meanwhile. Why not give it a quick read? Well, its because its a long pretentious written book by a intellectual that makes a long work out of a short point...not mention I don't find it particularly convincing that the entire soviet system was based around working people to death...it happened in the war years a bit, but it wasn't all that common in the USSR in general. Work yes...to death? no. There's not a lot of hard evidence of that BTW -- most the stories you hear about these camps are devoid of people being worked to death on documented interviews... its extremely common to hear about those that went to the gulag...most of them did not die it seems.

Another story to look out for:

The one about the woman in a big house that was only not killed by the communists because she was pregnant....yea its told all over the world -- its a freakn' legend not family history...the communist didn't knock on the doors of mansions and ask the people who the were etc...they found out before hand and just went there and grabbed you if they had a problem, which was the case if you were a landlord in China, or a Czarist during the revolutionary era of Russia. If you had a kid would make no difference.

Edit: I also feel it necessary to point out that Solzhenitsyn was a raging anti-semite -- so far right people love him for this as well.
Last edited by JurisDictum; 06-21-2018 at 04:23 AM..
  #12368  
Old 06-21-2018, 09:53 AM
Irulan Irulan is offline
Banned


Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,083
Default

Taking bets on whether bigj gets killed by a bear or a serial killer hunting women.
  #12369  
Old 06-21-2018, 11:35 AM
skarlorn skarlorn is offline
Banned


Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: The Misty Thicket
Posts: 4,863
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nibblewitz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
The Gulag was the only part of socialism that the Russians got right.
wow, this is actually so poignant, thanks. i knew i put up with your SOCIALIST LOOT COUNCIL REGIME for a reason!
  #12370  
Old 06-21-2018, 11:49 AM
Nibblewitz Nibblewitz is offline
Fire Giant

Nibblewitz's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 705
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by skarlorn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
wow, this is actually so poignant, thanks. i knew i put up with your SOCIALIST LOOT COUNCIL REGIME for a reason!
borg beats snowflakes everytime
Closed Thread


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:41 PM.


Everquest is a registered trademark of Daybreak Game Company LLC.
Project 1999 is not associated or affiliated in any way with Daybreak Game Company LLC.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.