Game Mechanics: Rogue hide

[4WOFURY]

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

by pre-PoP do you mean Luclin aka the introduction of AAs aka what that guy is talking about.....

No, I mean pre-PoP aka before level 63 aka before Shroud of Stealth AA aka what that guy is talking about.

[Erati]

Originally Posted by 4WOFURY [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, I mean pre-PoP aka before level 63 aka before Shroud of Stealth AA aka what that guy is talking about.

well played

there were zero changes to stealth, hide, sneak, AAs involving sneak/hide during Luclin?

it seems with such a massive thread, that has had Dev attention....there must be a missing puzzle piece the posters are not finding for why the Devs have not made this change

OR

this change involves altering so many different npc's abilities that it has not been touched

[4WOFURY]

None in SoL that I remember.

Moot point - SoS was a major improvement to hide, as it made it to NOTHING in the old world would see you. As previously stated, I had pictures of me sitting next to Nagafen with it. I'm not looking for SoS capabilities here, just to have a class defining capability put back to the way it was pre-July 2013, as it was in 1999.

I know hide was better pre-PoP than it is currently in P99, as I used to enjoy exploring as a low level rogue. I was able to get all the way to giants in SolB with ease, past the Lava Duct Crawlers and Kobolds - Bat's DID see through hide, but I was usually able to hug the wall to avoid them.

I'm not sure why the change was made. Maybe it was at the same time as invis pulling, to stop that - but that shouldn't affect hide's operation.

Even the devs that have posted have no idea why it was changed. It worked properly a year and a half ago. I couldn't figure out why it was changed, and after finding no one else could either, decided to try to get it corrected.

[4WOFURY]

As it is, I'd happily reroll a monk. At least they can FD - all we have is the ability to open doors as it stands, and this is incorrect. Rogues are defined as "The Masters of Stealth". We are bell hops and doormen now.

Hell, necromancers and SKs have insta-invis, can IVU, can FD, Necro's can gate and have pets and do quite a lot of DPS.

I'm not looking for class equality here, as I know Verant didn't - but I know rogue's weren't THAT inferior of a class to everything else, and the evidence supports hide being corrected. Again, "Masters of Stealth", used for scouting. On P99, they are the "Masters of Doors".

[Droog007]

Originally Posted by 4WOFURY [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm assuming you didn't review any of the factual evidence posted by extremely knowledgable players pre-PoP, such as certain mobs in SolDungA/B seeing thorough invisibility but not hide (kobolds and goblins), as well as the mobs in PoHate that saw through invis/ivu but not hide, and the ones that did see through hide.

Sure, some of the things people posted were originally posted by inexperienced people, but the evidence others and I have posted can not be ignored because of those posts.

I reviewed all of the linked "evidence" in this thread. I didn't find anything that convinced me of the existence of any mob that sees through invis (or IVU), but not pre-SoS hide.

I believe that if there truly is/was 2 different checks for seeing through hide vs. other forms of invisibility in the code, then they were effectively redundant - all mobs (or at least very nearly all) had both flags or neither. Nowhere even close to the very short list you have put forth as complete.

I agree that places like Sol A, Sol B, Plane of Hate, and even Sebilis are wrong - we should be able to maneuver through those places much more easily - but it's not because hide is supposed to be better than invis+ivu.

[Scrubosaur]

It's either mobs that spawn with innate ability to see through invis shouldn't be able to see through hide/sneak or hide/sneak > invis + itu and only certain special mobs should be able to see a hide/sneak rogue such as specter's, goo's and bosses. One or the other should be fixed.

[Erati]

or lower the % chance that a mob spawns with the ability to see invis in general

[koros]

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

by pre-PoP do you mean Luclin aka the introduction of AAs aka what that guy is talking about.....

Edited because I was replying to a post from yesterday.

There were no invis changes in Luclin. Shroud of Stealth was PoP and was the only big change. Hide was certainly better than invis, as had been noted both via evidence and memory of many players (I played a rogue in a raiding guild from early 2000-2004), problem is Rogean recalls differently.

[koros]

Originally Posted by Scrubosaur [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's either mobs that spawn with innate ability to see through invis shouldn't be able to see through hide/sneak or hide/sneak > invis + itu and only certain special mobs should be able to see a hide/sneak rogue such as specter's, goo's and bosses. One or the other should be fixed.

It's both. If a mob spawned "see invis" but its type normally couldn't see through hide, it was still able to.

[Baxter]

Something isn't right thats for sure, but as it is now sneak/hide is completely useless. I haven't used it in months. Theres just no reason to when I can invis and not be snared.