Cheating everywhere, GMs???

[branamil]

Imagine you have a 40 hour a week job like as a mechanic or something and when you get home to your "volunteer" job, you're dead tired and you have to watch a 2 hour presentation on the statistical anomalies of 16 bit giant slaying so that it's mystical power armor is evenly distributed to 45 year old diabetic men so that they don't throw a tantrum

[titanshub]

Originally Posted by karadin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

OP gives every other player the rubber banding "benefit of the doubt" except for Stunningly. Once both players get a sync, you can even see in the video that Kickenit gets a slight update forwards, Stunningly gets a large update backwards. I'll repost this screenshot for your benefit. Our "control" is 150ms+ ahead of Stunningly.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you examine the footage in question (Kickenit) you will see the druid rubber bands back into the pack and stays there. The false start is an obvious anomaly. I had the same questions when I was looking at that footage frame by frame but you can see him on the line still standing there once the line starts to clear out.

If its true then it should be easy to demonstrate from the footage that Stunningly appearing on the recording in a place he was not.

[karadin]

Originally Posted by titanshub [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you examine the footage in question (Kickenit) you will see the druid rubber bands back into the pack and stays there. The false start is an obvious anomaly. I had the same questions when I was looking at that footage frame by frame but you can see him on the line still standing there once the line starts to clear out.

If its true then it should be easy to demonstrate from the footage that Stunningly appearing on the recording in a place he was not.

But if Stunningly is clearly 150ms+ behind the control (Kickenit, who is definitely scripting) by that last frame, how do we accommodate for that? Ignoring that seems to run counter to the logic the OP uses on other racers (not just Givincer). IMO, the fact that Kickenit is so far ahead in that last frame when no other input is needed is really damning to OP's case.

[fritzad1]

Originally Posted by Profyx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you think kael race boils down to time off the line you've never raced it. While I disagree with the OPs conclusions, I wont dismiss people having opinions or questions regarding reaction time off the line. But the truth is that the line time is irrelevant. People who win the race are running better lines than people who lose the race. This is a 91-95 second race, and People win it by more than 50ms every week, sometimes 20x that. There are few people who know the race well enough to compete, period.

Lol. Obviously you aren't a racer

[Twochain]

Originally Posted by fritzad1 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lol. Obviously you aren't a racer

That would be stunningly, the subject of the entire video/


OP did the lords work. This is the best RnF thread in a while. Worth the time and effort tbh.

[Thomacles]

Ummm......

You do realize that this is just a game, right?

This reminds me of when I was 8 years old and we had a fight about whether the hotel was on Parkplace, or Boardwalk, after our dog tipped the board.

It didn't really matter then, and certainly doesn't matter now.

And the other person is right. The managers don't care, because in the end it's all just petty nonsense. Even if they are scripting, or glitching, or lagging, or dropping framerate,......no one was hurt, no animals were killed, and no crimes were committed.

But hey, if you wanna do a Perry Mason on a 20 year old elf sim, have at it. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[k9quaint]

This thread demonstrates how trivial it is to script race starts.
If the meta changes due to this new information, the server is competitive.
If the meta does not change, then it is only a contest between the people who are willing to script.

[titanshub]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, it's nonsense. There is no correlation between ping and FPS.

Ping is the response time between your client and the server.

FPS is the speed that it takes pixels to render from your video card to your monitor.

OP is trying to measure reaction time in ping from different computers with unknown relation to the geographic location of the hosted server when all he's got is FPS.

OP dismisses obvious flaws as "rubber banding" when in reality almost everything you see from the movement of other characters not your own fall under rubber banding. It's not precise.

The server does not monitor the position of your character. That is 100% client side (which is why warping in MQ works). Your client sends updates to the server, and the server shares those updates with other players, so the locations are no longer accurate by the time the other players receive them.

You ever sent a tell in guild chat at the same exact time of somebody else? It shows up first on your screen, but it shows up in a different order from someone else. Why? Because your chat was displayed client side without interaction from the server and chat from everybody else had to go from your client to the server to their client.

OP spent 2 months producing a 30 minute video based on the flawed assumption that he could measure reaction time frame by frame when there's literally nothing to keep the players locations synchronized in real time.

When measured against an admitted cheater, Stunningly's reaction time lost. Therefore Stunningly must be a cheater, right?

I think that there is an error in this logic. The idea that anything in the real world is completely provable is false. If we assume for the moment that the video in question contains no methodological or calculation errors and we compared that to a hypothetical admission of guilt from the accused parties then the statistical argument presented in the video is still more valid than the admission of guilt. This is because human testimony is a terrible source of information that is generally avoided in favor of empirical data.

All we can ever have is evidence not proof and assuming no methodological or calculation errors in that presentation then the author has moved the bar from something like 99.9% to 99.999%. If you set the bar at 100% then you have asked for the bar of proof to be set so high nobody can ever achieve it. This is bad for a server that promises a fair raid scene and impartial staff. (I'm not saying that staff are not these things just pointing it out) Everyone here including Vanquish should have a vested interest in the server maintaining its integrity.

As stated in the video, this kind of analysis in speed running is done with direct input logs of when buttons were pressed. The devs of the server presumably don't have access to that level of information about the users of p99. For this server to have any integrity in the raid the burden of reasonable doubt not absolute proof needs to be used.

If we use the burden of reasonable doubt then the accused look guilty af.

That being said, I'm bias so if you want to prove it wrong go poke actual objective holes in his analysis instead of hand waving lag from the monitor to the whatever whatever whatever. Provide a counter example where you use his methodology and produce provably honest reaction times that contradict his claims.

[Tunabros]

maybe if OP spent those 2 months practicing FTEs and engages, they might have a chance

next cycle!

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by titanshub [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you examine the footage in question (Kickenit) you will see the druid rubber bands back into the pack and stays there. The false start is an obvious anomaly. I had the same questions when I was looking at that footage frame by frame but you can see him on the line still standing there once the line starts to clear out.

If its true then it should be easy to demonstrate from the footage that Stunningly appearing on the recording in a place he was not.

None of the footage is very reliable sadly when we are talking about small variations in player location with an online game. Especially an old one where the interpolation code isn't that advanced. The only way you could show obvious cheating is if a player teleported a distance that was farther than someone could possibly go in that period of time.

Lets say the top speed of a racer is 10 meters a second after all regulation buffs have been applied (this isn't supposed to be a real number, just an example). If you see the racer jump ahead 150 meters in 2 seconds, there is no possible way for that to happen, even accounting for lag. I don't see anything like that in OP's videos.

Can I guarantee cheating did not occur? No, but the difference is small enough to fall within the normal range of expected behavior when dealing with an online game.

If the Dev's don't see any clear red flags of cheating in whatever data they capture or player made videos, they can't prove it. Honestly I would rather have Dev's that assume players are innocent until proven guilty, instead of the other way around. It would really suck to get banned for playing the game normally.