Confused about my roll in groups...

[Budder]

So as a warrior I thought first and foremost my job is to engage the bad guys and keep it on me as I should have the most hit points and highest AC. I’m a bit confused by tank vs DPS and which one I am. I’ve been told a few times by other DPS group mates (rouge and Ranger I believe) to stop taunting. Wtf isn’t that what I’m supposed to do? Also was told that to hold agro I need to DPS with fast weapons, preferably that proc. And if I was to “tank” I need to use a high damage 2 handed weapon. To me they’re kind of both the same as I want high DPS in order to tank yes?
So what situations do I use DW fast weapons vs. a bigger slower 2 hand? I just figured my job as a warrior was to take the hits so the rest of the soft targets can do there thing and not get dead.
Thanks, I know it may sound dumb but I’m just trying to be the best warrior I can for my group/raid whatever.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by Budder [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I’ve been told a few times by other DPS group mates (rouge and Ranger I believe) to stop taunting.

That sounds peculiar, especially coming from a Rogue who can't do his job properly if the monster's facing him. Are you using Taunt when the monster is already attacking you? If so then Taunt does nothing; Taunt can only work when the monster's attacking somebody else. Taunt doesn't work when the monster's already attacking you. It's snap aggro--Taunt'll flip the monster back to you, but doesn't help you HOLD its attention. For that you need weapons that generate high threat, either from high damage output, good special effects, or preferably both.

Danth

[Videri]

Originally Posted by Budder [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I’m a bit confused by tank vs DPS and which one I am. I’ve been told a few times by other DPS group mates (rouge and Ranger I believe) to stop taunting. Wtf isn’t that what I’m supposed to do?

• If you already have aggro, there is no need to use Taunt (unless you are just practicing to raise the skill). What Taunt actually does is it gives you 1 aggro point more than whoever is at the top of the hate list. You use Taunt to turn a mob from another groupmate to yourself. It has no effect if the mob is already attacking you.
• If you are nearly dead, then yeah, stop taunting and let the ranger (or even the rogue) tank for a bit until you are healed. You are a tank, but you don't have to always tank, and you must remain alive to tank effectively.
• If you are wearing rags and some super-twink fungi ranger is in group, you will probably just let them tank. You will probably have no choice as they will swing faster and harder than you and they'll also use spells. Your function will then change to DPS (worse DPS than the twink ranger, but more damage is better).
• I don't know why a rogue would ever want you to stop taunting, however. Perhaps there was a misunderstanding. Or perhaps he meant don't Taunt if you already have aggro, but rather save Taunt for when the mob turns to the rogue.

Originally Posted by Budder [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also was told that to hold agro I need to DPS with fast weapons, preferably that proc. And if I was to “tank” I need to use a high damage 2 handed weapon. To me they’re kind of both the same as I want high DPS in order to tank yes?

Firstly, yes, holding aggro is part of tanking. Secondly, there are formulas for this stuff and there is a lot of discussion about it on the forums. I will link to some threads.

The hardest thing to understand is that damage actually does not increase hate. Increasing your number of swings increases hate (faster weapons); using a weapon with a higher base damage increases your hate (higher damage weapons); and these things both increase your damage per second. But DPS itself does not generate hate. (inb4 someone misunderstands and says this is wrong) Explanation/source:

From this thread:
"melee threat is strictly based on potential damage, not actual damage. ...
((weapon base damage) * 2) + (level based damage bonus) = (melee threat per swing)." <-- meaning it includes misses!!

So what it comes down to is that you want the best ratio weapons available, and you want them faster so you get to do more swings. More swings = more times the damage bonus is applied. Misses generate the same amount of hate as hits.

And procs help, but many forum-warriors claim they are not reliable. Try searching for threads about building a warrior for dex and what the best aggro weapons are, etc. I hope you like reading about nerds arguing over math.

Originally Posted by Budder [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So what situations do I use DW fast weapons vs. a bigger slower 2 hand?

I think generally 2-handers are for more damage, dual-wielding is for holding aggro better. Perhaps you can do the math on your current 2-hander versus your current pair of 1-handers and calculate the threat per swing, then multiply by the swings per minute to find the threat per minute.

Originally Posted by Budder [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks, I know it may sound dumb but I’m just trying to be the best warrior I can for my group/raid whatever.

Then you have the right attitude, young warrior, and I hope what I posted is somewhat helpful. Overall my top tip is to search these forums for info from people that know more than I do.

Other good threads to read:
https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...=weapon+threat

[kaizersoze]

Its possible that you were grouped with twinks who were more mana efficient to heal. Yes, typically the warrior is supposed to tank, but if your gear is worse than say, a ranger / sk / monk of equivalent level, you might be asked to DPS instead, in which case you can go berserk and dish out some decent DPS. In that scenario I recommend using 2 1 handed weapons because 99% of the time, you'll do more DPS dual wielding than you will 2 handing because of the bonus damage on your fast main hand weapon.

[Snaggles]

I’m a big fan of self-improvement and being friendly rather than trying to lecture people in my group even if they are not being optimal. It has to be repeatedly near-wipe mistakes before I’ll ever pipe up.

The ranger should be helping you (rooting for aggro and DS) and the rogue should be coordinating with you (ie: “should I get on the other side or will you turn the npc?”). Most people won’t toss protips so I’d chalk it up as a odd bunch. If they were really twinked they still should have been polite about it and explained the logic.

What level are you and what level were they? Low levels it’s a feeding frenzy; later on people generally stick to traditional roles. Some groups mix up the norms but at the mutual agreement of trying something different.

[Legidias]

You roll 100 in groups normally

[Budder]

I’m level 20. I DW Jasethers trident(sp) and a Green jaded broadsword, not the “best” but for free and 75plat I could be doing much worse. Hoping to get a Staff of Battle soon and get that 2hb up as I’ve read from a lot of threads that’s the way to go till 40ish unless you are a twink and can afford better DW weapons

[wagorf]

at lvl 20, roles are not as distinct between classes, other melees can tank without hurting group efficiency

it will be tough to hold aggro with Trident and Green jaded broadsword against twinks, but that's the life of warriors in the low level unless you can get a hand on procing weapons.

maybe someone can list some aggro weapons that proc at your level

[elwing]

In exp group, having knights tank and warrior dps is frequently more efficient due to:
-less unwanted agro/damage on the team due to quicker and better hate.
-knight tank and warrior dps is much better dpswise than warrior tank and knight dps... Knight dps will stay low no matter what.

Also as said before even if you tank don't spam taunt except if you want to skill up taunt, it gives virtually no hate, it just place you on top of the hate list... Meaning it's virtually useless if you are already on top.

[Tethler]

You only roll in groups if you made a dwarf.