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  #41  
Old 08-02-2018, 06:37 AM
Teppler Teppler is offline
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Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Its not a new discussion, but my opinion on it has always been:

If you make fixed "code-law" like rules then folks who are jerks will (still) find a way to make loop holes to get around the rules, only now the GMs will have their hands tied by the rules.

We're better off now with GMs able to look at the general rules and apply them to the specific instance that they are mediating.

I do agree that the current system is a bit scatter-shot spread over several threads and posts by devs/GMs for the last seven years. Re-organizing and consolidating (not changing) the posting of the rules would prob be a help to new players...but its a free emu, I'm not going to tell someone to work on this for my free entertainment.

I'd also agree that some camps (the ones that are the most popular that a majority of players at some time in their EQ play will encounter. things like AC, stormfeather, some epic bits, key bits, etc.) could also do with single consolidated post of existing information (not new information)...but again, its a free emu, not a paid game...I'm entitled to nothing.

Personally, I'm very suspicious of players that clamor for specific rules. From a gaming perspective, I cannot think of a single game that I've ever played that the "rules lawyer" has made better. They've existed in every game I've ever played (from pen and paper rpgs to board games to mmos...and from time to time I have regrettably taken that role too). In most games it becomes toxic.
I would take the completely opposite perspective. I'm very suspicious of people that don't want the rules clarified. It tells me you have some intention to bend camp rules to your will. Any camp situation is made better by having clearer rules. If players want to come to their own agreements, they can still do that.
  #42  
Old 08-02-2018, 06:02 PM
Foxplay Foxplay is offline
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Originally Posted by Menden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Don't be a douche, it's pretty simple.
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  #43  
Old 08-17-2018, 01:25 PM
Slave35 Slave35 is offline
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So Andakos just came in and ruled against me being next in the AC list, even though I was told I was next (and waited 6 hours under that assumption). It turns out, the camp owner just invited someone to his group, and now the entire group can get the AC ring first before me. Apparently they can just keep inviting new people and giving them the ring instead, and somehow that doesn't go against what Derubael says here:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...19&postcount=9

2) The person holding the camp cannot mislead you, or change his mind after telling you who is next. Something that no one ever does (and I will never understand why) is to specifically address the camp holder, asking who is next or if you can be next. The camp holder does need to reveal to you who the next intended camp holder is - if he doesn't, you may ask to be next and your claim will be valid unless he reveals the next person immediately. This person cannot change after the camp holder has "revealed" the next person to take the camp to you. It is an automatic forfeit if this occurs. If you ask to be the next camp holder and are told yes, the camp holder may not later retract or change this agreement and attempt to hand the camp off to someone else - it's yours once he has gotten his item or moved on from the camp.

Seems to me that if anything should be covered by the Play Nice policy, it's that. And it seems to me that ruling is 100% in error. But there you go, now you have a your-mom's-vagina-sized loophole to drive your greed through.
  #44  
Old 08-17-2018, 08:40 PM
Dartagnan Dartagnan is offline
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What about camps relating to XP? What are the rules here?

For example, the GY group in MM. Can they lay claim to the pit plus jail, tower, etc? Or can another group come in and take over other areas?

I've seen squabbles over the raider room in Highkeep goblin area. What's to stop someone from laying claim to the 3 spawns in that room?

I can't believe people can lay claim to the AC. I was always under the impression that mobs that randomly spawn like Pyzjn, Quillmane, AC were free game for people in the area and that someone couldn't lock the spawn down.

I agree, server rules aren't clearly laid out and it makes it difficult to understand.
  #45  
Old 08-18-2018, 09:36 AM
fastboy21 fastboy21 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slave35 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
So Andakos just came in and ruled against me being next in the AC list, even though I was told I was next (and waited 6 hours under that assumption). It turns out, the camp owner just invited someone to his group, and now the entire group can get the AC ring first before me. Apparently they can just keep inviting new people and giving them the ring instead, and somehow that doesn't go against what Derubael says here:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...19&postcount=9

2) The person holding the camp cannot mislead you, or change his mind after telling you who is next. Something that no one ever does (and I will never understand why) is to specifically address the camp holder, asking who is next or if you can be next. The camp holder does need to reveal to you who the next intended camp holder is - if he doesn't, you may ask to be next and your claim will be valid unless he reveals the next person immediately. This person cannot change after the camp holder has "revealed" the next person to take the camp to you. It is an automatic forfeit if this occurs. If you ask to be the next camp holder and are told yes, the camp holder may not later retract or change this agreement and attempt to hand the camp off to someone else - it's yours once he has gotten his item or moved on from the camp.

Seems to me that if anything should be covered by the Play Nice policy, it's that. And it seems to me that ruling is 100% in error. But there you go, now you have a your-mom's-vagina-sized loophole to drive your greed through.
Details matter. As you presented the facts, my understanding is that you should have gotten the camp after he explicitly told you that 1) there was a list and 2) that you were next on it.

Even so, the list rules have always been essentially that the person holding the camp can pass it to whomever he wants.

If player A is camping AC and player B shows up here is what should happen:
  • Player B asks Player A, "Are you camping AC? Is there a list?"
  • Player A tells Player B, "Yes, I am camping AC. There is a list: Me, JimmyJoe, JackyPutz, DumpyNitwitz, then you if you want to be on list."
  • JimmyJoe, JackPutz, and DumpyNitwitz might not be real players. They might not be online. They might not be in the zone. They might be alts that Player A has camped out at the camp. (This is cheating, but how would Player B every actually know? -- he won't)
  • When JimmyJoe gets the camp when Player A is done, my understanding is that JimmyJoe has no obligation to honor the list Player A originally told Player B.
  • JimmyJoe can now start a whole new list if he wants to...pushing Player B back to the end of the list. FUNCTIONALLY, it is possible that Player B (no matter how long he sits there) legit never gets to the front of the line.

I don't like the system. It is very unfair and easily cheated. Every time it has seriously been discussed it seems to come down to that this is how it was enforced in classic EQ. The guiding principal was simply that whoever has the camp can pass it to whomever he wants without regarding to anybody who has been waiting (and might even have been told) that they were on a list.

TLDR: Lists are bull. If you are on a list you only get to the top if the people holding the camp aren't jerks.

AC usually works out because of the nature of the camp (the named always drops the ring, the spot is hard to get to before the next PH has been up for a couple minutes)...but if someone WANTS to be a jerk you are out of luck.
Last edited by fastboy21; 08-18-2018 at 09:40 AM..
  #46  
Old 08-18-2018, 09:57 AM
Lore and Magic Lore and Magic is offline
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Should just be DPS races. Worked on live, would work here.
  #47  
Old 08-18-2018, 10:02 AM
aaezil aaezil is offline
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^ Yeah, No.
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Originally Posted by Detoxx View Post
I tried my hand at rotating with the casuals.
It was at this point I decided to no longer be kind to the casuals as they have extreme short term memory. They did this to themselves, unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by Maner View Post
No one in A/A cares that you aren't getting pixels. In fact after the last suspension wave the attitude is to stop letting the casual guilds get anything even remotely of value.
  #48  
Old 08-18-2018, 10:05 AM
aaezil aaezil is offline
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5 pages in and we havent arrived at any more clarry or change to pinned posts. More petitions and forum digging for new players and old players looking for info thats buried incoming
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Detoxx View Post
I tried my hand at rotating with the casuals.
It was at this point I decided to no longer be kind to the casuals as they have extreme short term memory. They did this to themselves, unfortunately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maner View Post
No one in A/A cares that you aren't getting pixels. In fact after the last suspension wave the attitude is to stop letting the casual guilds get anything even remotely of value.
  #49  
Old 08-18-2018, 10:12 AM
fastboy21 fastboy21 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lore and Magic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Should just be DPS races. Worked on live, would work here.
I've played on live with DPS racing...I honestly didn't mind the system. It felt like an even playing field to me. The rules were so simple too...you might get pissed when someone swoops in and KSs you, but at least you understood 100% what the rules were.

The big issue I have on p99 is that the built-in check to people being a dick on live was that the community was important. If you got labeled a ninja looter, KSer, trainer, etc. you were seriously jeopardizing your self on the server. One of the unintended consequences of the long-run static server is that this check has lost its bite. If you are a jerk there is no price to pay from the community.

I don't know what the fix is for that (other than starting over fresh on a green server --- which would eventually develop the same situation). I wouldn't be opposed to GMs releasing all character names on a player account if the player did something egregious on the pseudo-anonymous alt. People might think a little more about ruining their reputation.
  #50  
Old 08-18-2018, 01:15 PM
NegaStoat NegaStoat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slave35 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
So Andakos just came in and ruled against me being next in the AC list, even though I was told I was next (and waited 6 hours under that assumption).
If it really went down like this, link your screenshots and video to RnF and raise some hell with name and shame. The player, the party members, the GM, all of it.
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