Bard / Monk capabilities

[Raev]

I think Bards are being painted a bit idyllically in this thread. Somehow everyone treats a good bard like a religious experience. So let me point out some of the Bard negatives that are being swept under the rug.

Problem 1: you can't chat. A mediocre Bard is clicking to sing a new song every 3 seconds. A good bard is doing that plus targeting for charm/mez, positioning for melee, running around pulling, and using the Breath of Harmony. That doesn't leave a lot of time for chatting in a theoretically social game. Unless. You. Like. Typing. One. Word. At. A. Time. And. Elevated. Cortisol.

Problem 2: Bard tanking is better in theory than practice IMO. When you are getting your face bashed in, it's hard to keep up more than 3 songs. So you are singing 30% slow, cantata, and one mez or charm or damage shield. Is this really a huge win vs the superior mitigation and DPS of a Warrior? Worse, when the tanking bard goes to pull the group totally stops (ok, I know about the SS hat, but you can't lull and such).

Problem 3: Bards really struggle vs higher level content. Pacifying in Siren's Grotto is a great way to raise your heart rate. Forget about charm - that caps at 51. And you'll have quite a few mobs that are immune to mez, and it won't be easy to tell since most things resist kind of hard. In comparison, Monk FD works on mobs of all levels.

Problem 4: Monks shine in small groups, like MNK/NEC/SHM or MNK/CLR/ENC, where they can dps, tank, and pull. Bards, despite being a hybrid class, are paradoxically somewhat weaker in smaller groups because their songs hit half as many players. Smaller groups mean more loot and fewer camp disputes (The Bard/RogueX4/Cleric group in RCY sounds like a great way to get a flamewar going in OOC) and are also just more fun.

I think it's also important to remember that this is a very mature server. KC was tuned for group of 52s where the warrior has two yaks, FBSS, and crafted armor and so on. So yeah, a Bard with a full group of Velious geared 60s can clobber the spore king camp. Who can't? Even without invis pulling, this was an easy trio in Kunark gear MNK/CLR/ENC. The only challenging dungeons at this point are SG, Kael Arena (only if you do the protectors and guardians) and to some extent DN. Put 1-4 together and I don't think Bards outshine Monks, Warriors, Clerics, Shaman, etc in those areas.

Anyway, that was the negative picture of Bards. And in general I think hybrids on P99 are underrated and pure melee are overrated. Now that sneak has been nerfed into the ground I don't think Monks are really better 1-60. The problem is that Velious raid gear allows them to replace 6AC slots with 60AC slots and suddenly a raid monk has the durability of a raid knight or a HOT/Epic Warrior, which is way too good for anything that isn't the Temple of Veeshan.

[Fazlazen]

You have spewed so much bullshit in the thread, spyder73, it is hard to get behind you on anything you say. First, let’s get something straight, bard mezz can mezz anything an enchanter can mezz (sans rapture), which nobody uses in group settings anyways.

Bard can tank just fine when it is group content. They get a slow up to 35%, which make it so they barely take damage. They are much better pullers than any other class in group content, with SS helm, pacify, charm and mezz. That is even monks. When a good bard joins a group, a monk is nothing more than a poor mans rogue.

They can assume the combined roles of tank, cc and puller without ever leaving the camp.

They are by far the best grouping class for group exp content, when in the Right hands.

[Saludeen]

Spyder knows whats up

[skarlorn]

Yeah I actually agree with Spyder largely. You'll have an easier time on monk. I will say that a great bard IS a religious experience, especially at lower levels. But 9 times out of ten I'll take a chanter over a bard because their impact is more stable, sustainable, and scales better at level 60.

[enjchanter]

Originally Posted by Spyder73 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Everything you are saying is true for Necromancer also, try getting in a pick up group as a Necromancer and tell me how it went.

This is so true and I hate it. Necros are an amazing class that fuels a group in so many ways self sustaining and topping it if with a pocket rogue , I mean CMOM GUYS

[putrid_plum]

I echo the necro group hate, I played one to 45 and just gave up because you can't get groups no matter how useful you are. There's some sort of stigma against necros in a group setting or something on P99. If you want to just solo then sure necro is a great class for you but don't expect to ever find any sort of pickup group!

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by putrid_plum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I echo the necro group hate, I played one to 45 and just gave up because you can't get groups no matter how useful you are. There's some sort of stigma against necros in a group setting or something on P99. If you want to just solo then sure necro is a great class for you but don't expect to ever find any sort of pickup group!

I recently leveled my necro to 60 in KC...I only solo'd while LFG. I had no issues getting a spot. Not only is grping on a necro fun, but it is actually quite OP.

In undead zones you are charming (and dps'ing) like a chanter. you can heal and cc.

Only a fool wouldn't want you in a DPS spot in a KC grp. Honestly, the biggest issue I had grping was that I often found myself thinking about how much more exp I could get if I dropped and went solo. Grping is more fun (for me) at least though.

I will add that I hate necros who play their necro like a mage. You are expected to do much more than hit pet attack on your summoned pet. I have been kicking necros in PUGs that refuse to play properly recently. There is no shortage of them in KC, and they make it harder for the good ones.

[Jimjam]

I loved duoing with necromancers while playing on my ranger at hands. I'm sure even despite me providing tank/regen/slows/pulls/dps/no pet penalty I was slowing the necromancers xp.

The only reason not to invite a necro is out of selfless consideration for the necro's xp rate.

[TheFishyOne]

If you’re looking to get this toon to endgame, just ask yourself, “Do I wanna do the train up, or the tag out?”