Enchanter charm isn't classic, we all know this - Page 40

Ligma · #**391** 11-20-2019, 02:48 PM

You're not wrong. Monks were nerfed in luclin long before charm pets damage was scaled down in GoD. Nerf monks! Devs acknowledged they were OP first

Bazia · #**392** 11-20-2019, 03:05 PM

the problem wasnt this obnoxious when it was only a handful of encs doing it now its half the server

Tecmos Deception · #**393** 11-20-2019, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bazia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the problem wasnt this obnoxious when it was only a handful of encs doing it now its half the server

First of all, blue has had this many enchanters (proportionally) for at least a few years.

Secondly, you and some others finding this obnoxious isn't relevant.

cd288 · #**394** 11-20-2019, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

First of all, blue has had this many enchanters (proportionally) for at least a few years.

Secondly, you and some others finding this obnoxious isn't relevant.

Bazia seems to generally have an inflated view of the importance of his opinion. Probably best to just /smile and /nod...kind of like you do when a 13 year old starts spouting off

Tecmos Deception · #**395** 11-20-2019, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bazia seems to generally have an inflated view of the importance of his opinion. Probably best to just /smile and /nod...kind of like you do when a 13 year old starts spouting off

Lol.

To be fair, I certainly do as well [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not_Mikeo · #**396** 11-20-2019, 03:40 PM

Bazia is Loramin's burner account for those that didn't know.

loramin · #**397** 11-20-2019, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not_Mikeo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bazia is Loramin's burner account for those that didn't know.

LOL, I'm a forum addict, I'll admit that much, but if you think I'm as ... "engaged" as Lulz, and have time to create extra forum accounts ... you must not have been paying attention to how much time I waste on the wiki [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But really this whole conversation is so frustrating to me. You have two sides absolutely refusing to honestly communicate. On the anti-Enchanter side, lots of people are ignoring how important classic-ness, and classic evidence is. This place is not about "feels", it's about 1999.

On the other side ... yes, Enchanter lovers, I get it: your class is powerful, and you like that. Also, lots of classic evidence suggests that it should be powerful. Just because a bunch of haters don't like that the most powerful class is powerful, is absolutely, 100%, not a reason to change that class.

BUT ... again, this is a place for classic EverQuest. And EVERYONE who played on live, including all you passionate Enchanter defenders (whether you played an Enchanter there or not) ... you all know Enchanters weren't like this on live.

Sure people were ignorant back then, but that doesn't explain the game being completely different. A class that wasn't even a DPS class in classic is the best DPS class here.

Whatever your passions, whatever your tribe, if you truly respect the mission of classic EverQuest, you HAVE to admit ... there's something hollow about claiming you can wave away the huge unclassic nature of all this with "people were dumb back then".

Rooj · #**398** 11-20-2019, 03:58 PM

If players didn't realize how overpowered Charm was on Live, then perhaps the developers didn't either. I've seen it before, developers design something to be a certain way in their minds but players end up using the feature in a completely different way. It has caused classes to be redesigned to better suit the way the players play, rather than the way the developers intended in some games. Game designers are human beings who are capable of mistakes and not being able to predict the future. We shouldn't expect them to foretell every single outcome of a feature they add. And what often happens when a miscalculation happens, and a new feature or item or ability gives players a bit too much power, sometimes to the point of trivializing content? The dreaded nerf bat.

I honestly don't think that P99 Charm is that far off from Live era Charm. Charm was dangerous then, and it is dangerous now. Do I believe that we have a 100% Live era Charm here? No, but I do think it's close enough.

Here's the thing though. Sometimes developers balance things not by what the top 5% or whatever of players are doing, but by what the majority of players are doing. Think for a moment about all of the changes made to P99 that served to balance things that did exist during Classic, but didn't receive widespread use, for example the Ivandyr's Hoop. If Classic's community was the same as P99's today, and Hoops and Charms and whatever else was so common, do you honestly think that there wouldn't have been changes made? That the devs wouldn't have taken a look at the state of the gameplay, the type of impact a single class or item was making on grouping and farming and raiding?

I really don't see any difference between the Hoop and Charm, or other things that shouldn't be happening like SoulFire. They are all things that if P99 existed in 1999 I believe would've absolutely been altered. We can't go back and change or fix Classic, but we can P99.

So while I do think there could still be some purpose in trying to make sure Charm is working as intended - and again, I think it pretty much is - I think we should also be considering a reasonable and appropriate change that fits P99 and Classic.

Lastly, I still haven't seen any parses posted. I'd love to do it myself but I'm not appropriate level yet. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] (remind me what level the fireplace camp is in Unrest?)

Not_Mikeo · #**399** 11-20-2019, 03:59 PM

Enchanters were like this on live as I recall. People were just younger/dumber/worse at the game. But there were a few enchanters that could manage a charmed mob.

Lojik · #**400** 11-20-2019, 04:03 PM

What does "you all know enchanters weren't like this on live" mean Loramin? I'm confused. You just posted about evidence against the anti-enchanter crew...this part I got. But in what way were Enchanters "not" like this, and what evidence has been posted to go along with this statement? Besides being more scared to charm in general?