40 day raid ban

[Llodd]

Oh all you a/a ppl proclaiming shady shit doesn't happen and it's all unintentional is hilarious.

And then calling out casuals for being clueless about the raid scene. . Priceless =P

[xzhaa]

Originally Posted by Llodd [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh all you a/a ppl proclaiming shady shit doesn't happen and it's all unintentional is hilarious.

And then calling out casuals for being clueless about the raid scene. . Priceless =P

clearly you are of those clueless people

[Llodd]

Yup nothing shady ever happens or ever has. Keep believing!

[Maner]

Originally Posted by Llodd [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yup nothing shady ever happens or ever has. Keep believing!

No one in this thread has ever made this claim though... keep spinning

[matticas]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can (very easily) convince me that I'm not an experienced raider, but you can't convince me that the rules here are so complex, so convoluted, and so hard-to-understand that it is impossible for a guild to compete for top content without breaking those rules.

You seem thoughtful and reasonable, otherwise I wouldn't even bother...but these two things you mentioned go hand in hand: 1) you don't have end game raid experience, and 2) experience is essential for you to have an informed opinion on the subject matter at hand

Arm chair opinions are easy. Lvl a puller, get cothed up, compete, contest, manage aggro, peel adds, and everything else, then let's discuss experiences rather than guesses and opinions



“a man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an opinion.” —Hardwick

[matticas]

Originally Posted by Moerne [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've never raided with the A/A's, so I can't speak to what happens in NTOV, but I can tell you that even for the casual raiding guilds this can still be a problem, and you can't just simplify it down to "play by the rules". I'll give you an example of a situation we encountered when I was an officer in Paradox.

We were in Fear, contesting golem pops with another guild who will not be mentioned because the drama isn't needed. They made the FTE on the golem, but their puller got turned around, and pulled it into our camp thinking it was his. We were on the same wall, but not all that close to each other. Not even in los. Neither group had intentionally positioned themselves to be a problem for the other. The golem began rampaging through our ranks, and we killed it rather than let it wipe us.

This was a situation where mistakes were clearly made on both sides. But nothing was done intentionally, and there weren't a lot of options available. The puller's only option was Don't Make a Mistake - you've already agreed that's not exactly a viable option.

Our raid force's only option was Let The Mob Wipe Us. Well, in the heat of the moment that's just not something that's easy to do, especially when no one is sure of what's happening, where this mob came from, or why it's suddenly killing us.

So mistakes were made on both sides. Luckily, neither guild wanted a suspension over one golem, and we were able to work it out. But a suspension is what would likely have happened had it gone to GM resolution, and it wouldn't have been because of bad leadership choices, or because people were trying to get away with breaking the rules.

This, and imagine that happening often, pretty much always unintentionally. I know it's more fun to believe most of A/A are evil, but this has been my experience after nearly a year with AM. The chaos makes it fun, the chaos can also make it just plain awful. It all depends on how we respond and whether we make things right.

[shuklak]

The problem with going with the "accident" story is that it's far too past its prime. Anyone playing eq today has already been a part of groups and guilds where they or their group intentionally griefed someone and then laughed while proclaiming it was an accident. Its as classic as snakes kicking.

[HalflingWarrior]

Originally Posted by Llodd [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh all you a/a ppl proclaiming shady shit doesn't happen and it's all unintentional is hilarious.

And then calling out casuals for being clueless about the raid scene. . Priceless =P

Prove it, pal!

[loramin]

Originally Posted by matticas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You seem thoughtful and reasonable, otherwise I wouldn't even bother...but these two things you mentioned go hand in hand: 1) you don't have end game raid experience, and 2) experience is essential for you to have an informed opinion on the subject matter at hand

Arm chair opinions are easy. Lvl a puller, get cothed up, compete, contest, manage aggro, peel adds, and everything else, then let's discuss experiences rather than guesses and opinions



“a man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an opinion.” —Hardwick

I really like engaging with thoughtful and reasonable people like yourself too, so please try to take anything "harsh" in the rest of this post as hyperbolic rhetoric, and not me trying to be rude to you. But ... this has been going on as long as I've been here (4+ years), since back when TMO did it: "anyone who isn't in TMO doesn't understand raiding, so they don't get to have an opinion."

Well I'm sorry, but the idea that no one except the top raiders can possibly have a reasonable opinion is bullshit. And you know what else is bullshit? The idea that the staff is out to get the guilds. They've said it many times: they do not want to discipline anyone, and they did not create this project to become babysitters!

What they do want is for people to actually follow the rules while of course still playing and raiding (even top-end content). And that's why I don't even need to know a single thing about the raid scene: all I need to know is that the staff are people who have devoted insane amounts of their own time to let thousands of us have fun in their world, and those kind of people don't create impossible to follow rules just to fuck with the guilds.

This thread has been going on for 15 pages, and the absolute best reason anyone has given for why they have to train other guilds from time to time is because they have to pull a mob a certain way to a certain place. Why do the have to do that? Because it's the fastest way, and top-end raiding is a race.

Well, newsflash: Awakened is losing that race for 40(47) days. If they keep breaking the rules they'll lose it for even longer, and if other guilds break the rules they'll start getting suspensions too.

The raid scene 100% is a race, but if the staff keeps handing out escalating suspensions pretty soon people will learn that the "fastest" way isn't really the fastest, and start changing how they pull. Hell, they might even doing it in a [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] classic way for a change.

[kotton05]

We needed this in kunark...

Better late than never but never late is better!