Will Hybrid XP penalties be implemented on Green Server launch?

[Jimjam]

Is this thread trying to provide some kind of meta paladin vs sk role play experience?

[Ennewi]

No PNP sounds like it would allow for a more open world with stronger friendships and more meaningful consequences, but then a handful of depraved assholes would inevitably run entire servers into the ground for their own amusement or sense of achievement. In turn, valuable community members would leave because their idea of fun isn't a constant Lord of the Flies scenario of fuck or get fucked. Community members who were once paying customers. The subscription model cannot sustain that. But maybe devs of MMORPGs should consider having an anything goes PvP server for that very reason, to provide a similar outlet for people the way RnF does.

[pink grapefruit]

The more I learn what classic EQ was really like, the more it sounds like green will be a Sullon Zek type of server. We know the devs have had plans for a teams pvp server for years now, and most players are obviously hoping that this will be what we get from green. Changing the play nice policy a year into the server wouldn't really make much sense, but it's increasingly apparent that a "no rules" scenario would make for a better EQ experience for both the players and the staff. That scenario definitely qualifies as a "new experience", too.

At this point it seems like we should really be more curious about how the devs will implement the teams system than about hybrid xp penalties or a changing pnp. The playerbase would feel betrayed if they didn't get the teams server several years in the making, and unless they want to double their csr staff allowing things like training and KSing just makes sense. Is it possible to limit an ip address to only one team, to prevent people from creating characters on the other teams? Will we be getting the classic SZ deity-based teams, complete with Veeshan worshipping monks in Freeport? Will the teams even be hardcoded to prevent grouping, or will they be softcoded like on classic VZ and TZ servers? These questions are much more interesting, and at this stage are more pertinent.

[Dolalin]

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But maybe devs of MMORPGs should consider having an anything goes PvP server for that very reason, to provide a similar outlet for people the way RnF does.

FFA pvp isn't fun for the griefers without people to grief. This is why they're always trying to force people into pvp somehow.

This behaviour manifests in a lot of different contexts. Smokers are only 10-15% of the public but they used to own the bar scene, every single bar allowed smoking. Why? Because bars catered to the lowest common denominator: they knew the non-smokers would put up with smoking since it was the only game in town, you just couldn't go out otherwise. When the smoking bans came in, the minority could no longer abuse the majority to satisfy their addiction and they're still bitter about it.

Toxic people abuse the rules to force their behaviour and needs on the majority wherever they can, whether they're smokers or PvPers. It's the same mindset.

Normal players would never choose a pvp server willingly. The griefers would be left to themselves, and that's no fun.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

a handful of depraved assholes would inevitably run entire servers into the ground for their own amusement or sense of achievement.

That's the current P99 policy, where these players are able to own the top item farm camps by doing nothing but sitting there, and block everyone else out.

With competition via damage in place, it's not possible for a couple individuals to "run a server into the ground." Guilds will assemble the correct DPS characters and go in for items when they really want it, and the competition will always be fluid, because you're not going to get 20 casters from the same guild to constantly sit at one camp and prevent any possible encroachment. Or if that does happen, it's way better than the alternative of 1 person sitting there doing it. 20 people crowding around a single camp means they aren't somewhere else in the game world, which opens up more good spots for others.

Originally Posted by Dolalin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

FFA pvp isn't fun for the griefers without people to grief. This is why they're always trying to force people into pvp somehow.

You have a misconception about PvP being "griefers". PvP is something that requires more skill. That's why e-sports are PvP, not PvE. More intelligence and ability is needed. PvP'ers wanting to have a sufficient community for their game is not a statement of desiring sitting ducks to jump on. It's a desire to have a high level of competition and variety, creating the deepest gameplay possible.

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's the current P99 policy, where these players are able to own the top item farm camps by doing nothing but sitting there, and block everyone else out.

With competition via damage in place, it's not possible for a couple individuals to "run a server into the ground." Guilds will assemble the correct DPS characters and go in for items when they really want it, and the competition will always be fluid, because you're not going to get 20 casters from the same guild to constantly sit at one camp and prevent any possible encroachment. Or if that does happen, it's way better than the alternative of 1 person sitting there doing it. 20 people crowding around a single camp means they aren't somewhere else in the game world, which opens up more good spots for others.

That makes sense in a raid setting, but it already happens twice per month on here thanks to earthquakes. One guild prioritizes a target and others react by going elsewhere, picking off what they have the numbers for. Before earthquakes and racelines, it was 100+ people crowding around a single camp. Venril Sathir. There's probably still a screenshot of it on these forums somewhere. With no rule against kill stealing, the same numbers would have poopsocked then imo, just with more Wizards, Rogues, and Enchanters.

In a virtual world where potentially every success boils down to outdpsing the competition, guilds would not actively recruit nonessential classes and players who opted out of raiding would be less inclined to play those classes as well, for fear of losing a named to any old passerby.

Even as populated as the server is, few bother grouping in certain zones due to a lack of drops and abundance of harder mobs; instead they switch to an alt and level up in a different but equally popular zone. Idk if removing the PNP would change those habits all that much. Look at the clickfest scout used to be. Even when some were suspected of cheating, players still showed up in droves to try and outclick them. The current setup there isn't exactly fun, but players don't feel they have to resort to illegitimate tactics in order to have a chance.

Spam clicking or zerging, it's all more or less the same imo. If DPS was the deciding factor, how many players would group with new, untwinked players? The risk would be too great to have a Monk who only had a Peacebringer and FBSS. Players would have to auction themselves when LFG by linking their gear. And how many groups would be primarily comprised of Necromancers and Enchanters with charmed pets? The meta would change drastically. Minmax would take over. Not saying there wouldn't be an element of fun and risk in doing so, but again it would make certain classes irrelevant. Some of the most fun that can be had comes from those unconventional groups that are lacking in one or more areas, even DPS.

Getting put on the AC list in OOT or waiting LFG at the KC zoneline might chip away at our sense of adventure and "anything can happen" in the game, but the alternative would require a certain amount of self-regulating on the part of the playerbase, something we as a species aren't entirely capable of irl, much less in virtual reality.

[Titanas]

This got really off topic.

Removing EXP penalty for hybrids:
We all know its not classic.
We all know hybrids are bad and don't deserve the penalty.
We all know that some people will minmax and not invite Troll SKs
We all know that some people will roll these classes any ways.

How Class Exp Penalty should be:
Warrior / Rogue +10%
Monk / Druid / Shaman / Cleric / Paladin / Shadowknight / Ranger 0%
Wizard / Magician / Enchanter / Necromancer / Bard -10%

I'm on the fence for Bards because swarm kiting bards deserve a penalty. While grouping bards don't.

[Troxx]

No class deserves an xp penalty. It’s ultimately why the penalty was removed. With few exceptions the classes with the penalty ended up less powerful than the classes who didn’t have one for the first few years of the game.

It is, however, classic. If the goal is to strictly recreated classic it should be in. At the same time, special coding like aoe limits to 25 clearly help the server but are not classic. Following the “classic” argument, such non-classic changes should be removed until green reaches the custom content era of the velious timeline.

PS: summon pet power on p99 is still lower than it should be. Most notably the 59 necro pet EoT was a beast on live.

[jolanar]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No class deserves an xp penalty.

Well that depends on what the intent of a class xp penalty is. Not sure if the original devs ever went on record as to why it was there. My hunch is it was just there because they were copying heavily from DnD and not really any other reason. I think a class penalty that penalizes strong solo classes makes sense personally.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

PS: summon pet power on p99 is still lower than it should be. Most notably the 59 necro pet EoT was a beast on live.

There are lots of very basic things from classic EQ that still aren't correct on blue. Not to mention the final Blue patch isn't even in yet. Frankly I don't think they are ready for a Green server. Much less a Green server without any kind of beta.

[aaezil]

What if i told you blue server is a beta server