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  #11  
Old 12-01-2019, 02:04 AM
Talislor Talislor is offline
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Default Following Up

Hey everyone, thanks for all your great responses.

@DMN: At this stage I want to avoid discussion about specific measures to address the problem, and instead focus on the justifications needed to make a change.

@azeth: I also want to avoid downplaying anyone's or any group's achievements. The things that have been accomplished are incredible, and lets give them recognition for it.

@Videri: You confirmed that there are cases where "unclassic" changes were applied to the game. Although I find 40-50 player raids with a high degree of risk and uncertainty to be very classic, let me follow up below.


What justifications are needed to push through a hike in difficulty for these special encounters? The EQ Live team already gave us all the justifications they needed to push through changes two decades ago. In addition to those, which we have already met, what else should be necessary?

5) Community Support - Yes, I believe we have it. The lack of controversy to my original post as evidence.

I am making this effort because I am passionate and sincere about the difficulty of special encounters. Baring any unmet justifications for making a change, what is the next step to get acknowledgment that this case is valid from the people in charge?

Could there be any restrictions due to the agreement between Project 1999 and Daybreak? Should I reach out to Daybreak to make them aware of the issue and start a bridge between them and Project 1999?

A little guidance would be great. Thank you.
  #12  
Old 12-01-2019, 02:21 AM
kul69 kul69 is offline
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The reality is you're playing on P99, not classic EQ. No one knows why but the PMs want things to be this way. If it was up to the server community guilds like TMO would have been banned permanently the 100th time they RMT'd a new account to use cheats on to get loot and then have the account banned but the loot stays with the 10 core members of the guild. I mean they even caught like half the server using cheats at one point and gave them a slap on the wrist only for them to continue their cheat fueled raid tyranny. Abusing obvious P99 loopholes that aren't classic or weren't abused in classic and thus not nerfed is the bread and butter of raiding on P99. Accept it or accept you'll never be getting raid kills. The reality is that no one actually wants to play EQ. They're just addicted to the feeling of progress being made. The skinner box. So they'll poop sock 40 hours on camping green mobs so they can cheese dragons and feel like they're using some kind of sophisticated pro strat. In reality if those strats had been used in classic they would have been nerfed exactly as you're outlining. Nothing will be done.
  #13  
Old 12-01-2019, 02:45 AM
Videri Videri is offline
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I don't wanna act too stubborn here, but it's true:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Videri [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
(yes, they have made unclassic changes before, but that doesn’t justify moving even further from classic)
Anyway, good luck with this effort to experience classic difficulty, but I suspect you may soon feel like Don Quixote.

Perhaps the practical thing to do would be set a goal of killing Naggy and Vox yourself with only 30 people, or only 20, or something like that. People have done it with even less, in fact, but that may have taken place in later eras...
  #14  
Old 12-01-2019, 02:50 AM
Vormotus Vormotus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kul69 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Nothing will be done.
I never been much for raiding, but yeah, seems the endgame spectrum is quite weird to my old vintage eyes, shame that your statement seems to me to be the truth of it when night falls.[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
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  #15  
Old 12-01-2019, 02:59 AM
Ekl_Mortain Ekl_Mortain is offline
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I agree with OP. Doing nothing is Unclassic. The teams from live were Reactive to their players and came up with alternate methods to change an original design, but still keep it within the realms of acceptable play-ability.

from my perspective a big problem is a mix of meta gaming and the need to be the best. It's just get a guild, plvl to 60, get the best loot then retire. There is so much content that players just ignore. Why not go be a Brewer? Or a baker for a week? Go set up a smithy in some random location and help people with some sharpening stones.

Go be a druid in Kelethin and set up at the druid circles and behave like a druid for a day or two? Have some fun!
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  #16  
Old 12-01-2019, 03:05 AM
Endonde Endonde is offline
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The problem with increasing difficulty of raid mobs within p99 is that to increase it in a way that still represents classic everquest simply means increasing the dragons hp, or damage output. The issue with this approach is that all it does is force players to bring more people to kill the dragons, and doesn't really increase the difficulty for each individual player.

Even on Blue where staff made unclassic changes to effect the way raids were done in Velious, the changes essentially made it so that the largest guild always had an advantage. The changes in difficulty didn't open content to more players, I would argue it did the exact opposite.

Either way I think there is probably a 0% chance of any substantial mechanics changes happening on this server at least not for a long time, and I think it's way too early to even be considering any changes to the raid scene. The server has only be open a month, and Seal Team is the only guild raiding, as more players reach 50 other guilds may start raiding. Competition causes rushed engages and an increase chance of failure, so really we should just give it time and see what happens.
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  #17  
Old 12-01-2019, 04:36 AM
AgentEpilot AgentEpilot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekl_Mortain [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I agree with OP. Doing nothing is Unclassic. The teams from live were Reactive to their players and came up with alternate methods to change an original design, but still keep it within the realms of acceptable play-ability.

from my perspective a big problem is a mix of meta gaming and the need to be the best. It's just get a guild, plvl to 60, get the best loot then retire. There is so much content that players just ignore. Why not go be a Brewer? Or a baker for a week? Go set up a smithy in some random location and help people with some sharpening stones.

Go be a druid in Kelethin and set up at the druid circles and behave like a druid for a day or two? Have some fun!
The teams on live were also being paid with a monthly subscription. Don’t get me wrong changes would be good and in an ideal setting they would be discouraging this neckberd council but it would make an already busy group of volunteers even busier.
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  #18  
Old 12-01-2019, 04:38 AM
derpcake2 derpcake2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endonde [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
The problem with increasing difficulty of raid mobs within p99 is that to increase it in a way that still represents classic everquest simply means increasing the dragons hp, or damage output.
Bad players complaining that better players take content is very classic.

Of course since the bad players are bad, they don't understand that difficulty increases won't benefit them at all, since bottom of the barrel players remain bottom of the barrel, regardless of the situation.
  #19  
Old 12-01-2019, 04:49 AM
Ekl_Mortain Ekl_Mortain is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentEpilot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
The teams on live were also being paid with a monthly subscription. Don’t get me wrong changes would be good and in an ideal setting they would be discouraging this neckberd council but it would make an already busy group of volunteers even busier.
Hahaha true enough. They do a grand job. They need to find more volunteer staff me thinks. Get that Interview and Guide apprenticeships going hahaha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Endonde [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Either way I think there is probably a 0% chance of any substantial mechanics changes happening on this server at least not for a long time, and I think it's way too early to even be considering any changes to the raid scene. The server has only be open a month, and Seal Team is the only guild raiding, as more players reach 50 other guilds may start raiding. Competition causes rushed engages and an increase chance of failure, so really we should just give it time and see what happens.
You make a very valid point about changes and how young the server is. Give it time and see what happens when the next part of the timeline is out and compare the Then from Now.
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  #20  
Old 12-01-2019, 06:39 AM
Dreenk317 Dreenk317 is offline
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Make the raid more difficult for yourself. I know for a fact that vox has been killed with a single group of lvl 52's. Didnt even have a healer for the fight. Was one of my favorite memories on this server.

Didnt require the devs to a damn thing.
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