Blue vs. Red

[Galacticus]

Originally Posted by Giren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

WoW was not created with PvP as a focus.

I could see the argument being made for GW.

But how about a game that is nothing but PvP, like League of Legends?

League of Legends was able to do a game with class balancing with most of the choices feeling different.

Class balancing done wrong doesn't mean it can't be done right.

LoL is twitch heavy just like most pvp games out there. Player versus player is in FPS games, Strategy games, and MOBA games.

The thing is, if you like how eq combat works, if you like how you play the game at all, its hard to not argue for pvp. It is still everquest with its long casting times and its movement speed buffs and its zoning. The only real difference is that someone is intellegently trying to or sometimes failing to outsmart and outplay you.

[Reguiy]

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Most people who say EQ pvp sucks are just too big of pussies to get decent at it.

No...just...no.

[freez]

yea.....just...basicly

[Galacticus]

The thing is that if you are good at jousting, and you play a ranger, you can kill someone because your better at jousting then them. No classes are trivialized, each has its own unique spin on shit.

Pvp in eq is something that makes abilities like track actually useful. See invis is important on a pvp server, levitate takes on a whole new meaning and positioning matters. Snaring mobs so they dont run away is boring, snaring people in a fight is a major advantage. Pvp just makes eq better.

Range plays a big part in spell casting but so do other things like stacking buffs and counteracting spells with dispells and cures, and that is only one aspect to combat.
I mean RNG (random number generator). Not range. RNG is stupid. When I cast a spell I like to know it's going to do something.

The point about ping is that some games now come down to spaming shit super fast and if you have a half second ping advantage you will get the kill vs someone else killing you. It has nothing to do with skill and everything to do with ping. Sure you cant have a shitty connection in eq but it isnt a twitch based system where you lag for a second and your game is over.

I like RNG. They use them in D&D. The reason I like them is that it adds a variablility to the game that makes situations unpredictable. It mimics what happens in real life when things dont go perfect for whatever reason. Even Gandalf fizzled some spells sometimes.

I like to split pvp for eq up into two sections, jousting and spell casting. Each are very different and take time to get good at and master.

Every time I joust against someone I can tell within the first 30 seconds how experienced they are at it.

[Lune]

You guys make some compelling points about why someone might enjoy PvP in EQ; I'm almost convinced.

It's beside the point though. I think a lot of the things many people enjoy about EQ have to do with the system of interaction and personal relationships people form. There is a great deal of cooperation, co-dependency, and camaraderie that develops here, to a degree you just don't see in most MMOs. The addition of PvP fundamentally changes that entire system of interaction. I know all the reasons you enjoy those changes and I understand. But I suspect many people find the altered system distasteful, and I don't think calling them pussies is going to change that.

[Fame]

Originally Posted by Dacuk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i have not played a minute on a non pvp server since then.

[Faerie]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You guys make some compelling points about why someone might enjoy PvP in EQ; I'm almost convinced.

It's beside the point though. I think a lot of the things many people enjoy about EQ have to do with the system of interaction and personal relationships people form. There is a great deal of cooperation, co-dependency, and camaraderie that develops here, to a degree you just don't see in most MMOs. The addition of PvP fundamentally changes that entire system of interaction. I know all the reasons you enjoy those changes and I understand. But I suspect many people find the altered system distasteful, and I don't think calling them pussies is going to change that.

Anyone calling anyone a pussy for playing blue is being kinda silly. Red server isn't some hardcore gaming experience that "separates the men from the boys"; really it's about exactly what you mention here: community based around player interaction. PvP adds more depth to the already involved cooperation, co-dependency, and camaraderie that exists on blue. Your friendships and your rivalries both seem to mean more in a world where you can all attack each other at will.

I tried playing on blue for a couple months. Made it to my 30s grouping on a cleric, and while it was fun chatting and getting to know people, something was missing, and that something was the social depth I grew up knowing by playing EQ pvp. It really ruined me for most MMOs.

Red server has actual bad guys and good guys. Blue server sort of does, but when your interactions with each other are so limited there isn't much chance of being surprised. Good guys on blue spend some of their time offering items to noobs, rezzing people, porting people, or whatever. And it's great! But compare that to the red server, where people do all of those when they have the option of killing you instead, and that contrast of friend vs. foe really allows for the good guy to shine.

It sometimes sucks getting PKed of course, but when you consider that the bad guys on the blue server are really neutral and cannot interact as bad guys with most people the majority of the time, well... it kinda pales in comparison with the bad guys on red.

Basically, there's like a simple spectrum of "social depth" that goes from negative to positive. Blue EQ takes up more total space on this spectrum than WoW; but red EQ goes even further, spreading out more both toward the negative and the positive sides of the spectrum, reaching toward the limits of what MMOs have been able to find themselves at. Really I think only games like EVE go further.

Maybe a long-winded explanation, sorry. But this is what keeps me playing EQ, and it seems like such a shame that most of you will have a comparably limited experience.

[Swish]

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[drktmplr12]

All I can imagine for red is never wanting to hit level 52...

[Swish]

Changes incoming, including a 4 level pvp range...so make that L56, and by then you'll just want to get to 60 anyway [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]