If Free-Speech falls, we're in trouble

[Elrood]

Originally Posted by FatherSioux [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I continue to be amazed at the ability of people to blindly allow people to be silenced and lose their voice under the name of protecting people from "bad/dangerous" ideas.

I continue to be amazed at the ability of people who most loudly claim to be concerned about their first amendment rights seemingly have *no clue* what the first amendment says or does.

It takes like 15 seconds to read it, and unlike other certain amendments, it is crystal clear in it's intent and purpose.

[Cassawary]

Originally Posted by cs616 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Free speech and the first amendment are not the same thing. The first amendment limits the US government's ability to curtail free speech, but the concept of free speech dates back at least 2500 years to the Greeks, and possibly earlier. Conflating the two is lazy, disingenuous, and at least recently, usually due to political partisanship.

As for companies censoring individuals on their platforms, I'm personally opposed to it, but there is nothing illegal about it. That said, I don't think companies should be allow to have it both ways. If they're a free and open platform where they do not control the content, then I think they should remain not liable for that content. However, if they choose to exercise editorial authority, they should be liable for the content on their platform. I think their smartest move would be for them to voluntarily to adhere to first amendment principles as it would be the most simple way to remain neutral both legally and socially, but ultimately that is their decision.

I do think this is going to be bad for these companies in the long run. Remaining neutral and simply providing a service alienates the fewest amount of potential customers, and even if it only alienates a minority, that still opens up the opportunity for competition or innovation to eat into their market share by catering to that minority.

Ultimately, I really don't care about the social media platforms since they're a dime a dozen and there should/will be better things that come along. Despite never using Parler, I think Amazon and Apple kicking them off their platforms sets a far more dangerous precedent than twitter or facebook censoring a few people since the internet practically runs on AWS and would be much harder to replace. Hopefully these developments will lead to the innovation of new, more robust methods of communication that don't have gate keepers though.

And before anyone assumes anything about my politics, I think Trump and Biden are both garbage, and the Capitol protestors/riots/insurrectionist were a bunch of morons. Our entire political system caters to wealthy special interests and almost all politicians are corporate sycophants. I'm not on your team, or their team, or any team. The whole system is corrupt and only gives the illusion that your opinion matters.

what's a special interest?

[cs616]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In America, the bill of rights only protects you from the goverment infringing on your right to say whatever you want.

So having private entities or companies be forced to publish stuff they dont want to, by the government, is the only idea on the table that is infringing on free speech.

Again, free speech as a concept is bigger than and distinct from the bill of rights. Yes, the bill of rights only limits the government's ability to censor speech, but censorship is censorship no matter the source. What the companies are doing is certainly not illegal, but anyone who supports the free and open exchange of ideas should be opposed to it morally.

[cd288]

Jesus OP how incredibly whiney can you be? Move on

[loramin]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not a terribly good example. Fundamentally little different from the coordinated attacks on Parlor by the usual suspects.



Could you list all the notable people in history who were forever unemployable simply for having the "wrong" opinion on a subject? All the people booted out of school/profession/job due to some joke they made when they were kid? Where fully westernized democratic countries seek to jail/fine people for using the wrong words or simply telling the wrong jokes? Where those same governments compel speech? Where many of the universities in those countries had speech codes?

More idiots on the internet is no metric of free speech.

Freedom of speech is not (and has never been) freedom from consequences of that speech. The only consequences our constitution prohibits are the government retribution kind, but what private citizens do to you as a result of your speech is, and has always been, their freedom to choose.

[FatherSioux]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Jesus OP how incredibly whiney can you be? Move on

Yeah look at me, defending peoples right to free expression. Fuck me right? You clowns must not realize the cannons of silence can and will be turned on you.

I grew up with the internet and I’m amazed at how soft we’ve become where we think the best way to handle people with crazy opinions is to silence them and force them into an even more extreme echo chamber. As opposed to laughing at them and explaining to them why their ideas are bad.

The Left loves to pretend to be the party of intellects yet they cant see or deny what these types of policies breed. Not smart.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by FatherSioux [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah look at me, defending peoples right to free expression. Fuck me right? You clowns must not realize the cannons of silence can and will be turned on you.

I grew up with the internet and I’m amazed at how soft we’ve become where we think the best way to handle people with crazy opinions is to silence them and force them into an even more extreme echo chamber. As opposed to laughing at them and explaining to them why their ideas are bad.

The Left loves to pretend to be the party of intellects yet they cant see or deny what these types of policies breed. Not smart.

If I PMed you a bunch of disagreeable stuff to post on my behalf and you refused, you’d be ‘repressing my freedom of speech’ by not broadcasting my message in your posts.

I’m not entitled to the benefit of your platform, and the government shouldn’t force you to platform my views as it is a greater assault on your freedom of speech.

[Danth]

History repeats Sioux. Back in the 50's blacklisting communists was in vogue. Shoe's on the other foot this time around but the tactics stay the same. We'll see whether the ship of state rights itself this time.

Originally Posted by FatherSioux [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The Left loves to pretend to be the party of intellects yet they cant see or deny what these types of policies breed. Not smart.

This is because of a very seductive notion that naturally worms its way into the mind of the educated: The notion is that we're no longer animals and we're no longer subject to instinctual tendencies. "We're better than that, it can't happen here." It can and if left unchecked, it will. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Danth

[Cassawary]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If I PMed you a bunch of disagreeable stuff to post on my behalf and you refused, you’d be ‘repressing my freedom of speech’ by not broadcasting my message in your posts.

I’m not entitled to the benefit of your platform, and the government shouldn’t force you to platform my views as it is a greater assault on your freedom of speech.

turns out the Constitution is ill-equipped to handle computers or anything beyond Anarcho-Agrarianism, really

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[Cassawary]

Originally Posted by magnetaress [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not soft. Lol.

The really big irony is that the left and right are both severely pissing off the middle. It's those middle of the road extremists and radicals you really got to worry about. Ya'know. When they just want a little peace and moderation [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can you imagine if the the-th, you know the thing, wasn't written by psychotic barley farmers?