SK Race Choice

[Toxigen]

Originally Posted by Duik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Have BIS velious ft items and your freebie kunark clickes totes become worth it.
Simples.

if anything the clickies are even better when you have no FT1 and 2

im with dsm on this one...for solo / weird duos with no mana regen you need all the mana savings you can get

moar mana moar gud

[Snaggles]

I went from rarely using my BE gaunts to never using them once I got a Soul Defiler. Easier said than done but as a general practice just potg will keep up with casting tank spells. If it won’t, it’s because you are fighting something with a 0-second or CH chain targeted on you. In that case, the clerics will go OOM before you will.

Theorycrafting is fun. Nice to have the option of a free click when your mana is struggling. Likewise a Greenmist is a good tanking weapon, especially with the nerf to DC. An AC, STR, lifetap dot would be a fever dream weapon for any warrior…

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I went from rarely using my BE gaunts to never using them once I got a Soul Defiler. Easier said than done but as a general practice just potg will keep up with casting tank spells. If it won’t, it’s because you are fighting something with a 0-second or CH chain targeted on you. In that case, the clerics will go OOM before you will.

Theorycrafting is fun. Nice to have the option of a free click when your mana is struggling. Likewise a Greenmist is a good tanking weapon, especially with the nerf to DC. An AC, STR, lifetap dot would be a fever dream weapon for any warrior…

I agree that Soul Defiler is a big help to solve mana problems. But it is a tough item to get. It's a rare drop and usually goes for a large amount of DKP, even in top guilds.

Greenmist would be awesome on a Warrior, but the same could be said for many 1h knight weapons. They have a higher than average ratio to make up for low knight damage.

Since Greenmist can't be used on a Warrior, and this is a Shadowknight thread, we need to discuss the merits of Greenmist vs. Blood Ember in the context of a Shadowknight.

Once you are in a position to acquire a Soul Defiler, you can also get an Axe of Resistance or Silver Whip of Rage if you want a high MR 1 handed weapon. So high MR isn't really an argument for Greenmist, especially since Shadowknights don't need procs to maintain agro. Stacking Greenmist and Epic is not worth it either when you look at the math, except in the luckiest of cases where you can proc both within 6 seconds.

I'd rather have BE Greaves and a Silver Whip of Rage/Axe of Reaistance/Vulak Axe over Greenmist. Sadly Greenmist is replaceable by raid gear. Blood Ember Gear cannot be replaced.

[Snaggles]

People who use DW class weapons for knights are ridiculous. 1/1 or better 1h’s do mediocre damage. I can’t imagine doing less and paying big dkp for a silver whip of rage. The proc isnt any aggro, the GM is substantial. Also…if you are using that kind of weapon you are throwing all melee aggro out the door. Which isn’t that important but you shouldn’t forfeit it completely.

Getting a soul defiler is no harder than a silver whip. Vyemm is actually hard and it’s a multi-class weapon. An Axe of Resistance makes for a fun resist screenshot but you wouldn’t catch me dead using it.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People who use DW class weapons for knights are ridiculous. 1/1 or better 1h’s do mediocre damage. I can’t imagine doing less and paying big dkp for a silver whip of rage. The proc isnt any aggro, the GM is substantial. Also…if you are using that kind of weapon you are throwing all melee aggro out the door. Which isn’t that important but you shouldn’t forfeit it completely.

Getting a soul defiler is no harder than a silver whip. Vyemm is actually hard and it’s a multi-class weapon. An Axe of Resistance makes for a fun resist screenshot but you wouldn’t catch me dead using it.

1. A Knight's job is tanking, not DPS. Greenmist's DPS isn't great either compared to other knight 1h weapons like Frostwrath or Soul Defiler. Greenmist has a 0.81 ratio, Frostwrath has a 1.09 ratio. You are already sacrificing 0.28 ratio, so I am not sure why you think you are doing great damage with Greenmist.

2. Silver Whip of Rage generates more white damage agro than Greenmist because it is faster. The Rune Proc will save you more HP than Greenmist, especially if you proc multiple times within a minute. Greenmist is capped to 300 HP/Minute saved due to it's DoT nature, regardless of proc amount. Silver Whip of Rage could save you 600 HP if you happened to proc 4 times in a minute.

3. Knights don't need weapon procs to maintain agro. I am not sure why you keep thinking Greenmist is going to significantly change how often the mob flips if you are playing your Shadowknight correctly. I don't see any guild using Greenmists for specific content due to difficulty of maintaining agro.

4. When it comes to getting Soul Defiler in a guild, my point is that Soul Defiler is not a trivial low DKP knight item that is easy to get. It's a rare drop, and I've seen Soul Defiler go for 800 DKP in a top raiding guild multiple times. If you can get Soul Defiler, you can get other raid weapons that will outclass Greenmist like Axe of Resistance, Silver Whip of Rage, or Vulak Axe. There simply isn't anything good enough about Greenmist that would make it preferable to Axe of Resistance, Silver Whip of Rage, or Vulak Axe for players who want a 1h weapon that fulfills a similar role to Greenmist.

[Snaggles]

Im not talking dps, im talking aggro. Specifically melee swing aggro based on the most a weapon can do per round. If you are chain casting spells the whip and a 1h will cycle about the same amount of times, less threat per swing though and less aggro on the whip. A proc is at least 400 hate and if it goes off is worth a couple swings. Outside this…the ratio on the GM is better, it has mana, str, and Dex. It’s free and is good enough to tank without buying anything. So its like an extra 400+ dkp.

See above.

Nothing is going to flip if a SK is burning their mana on aggro spells. There is no guild-specific strategy using Greenmist just like there is no ogre (outside tunare) or blood ember strat. These are all silly things.

I like how you casually lump the Vulax in with all the rest. In terms of difficulty on blue there are more guilds that can consistently kill Yeli than Vyemm. There is only one guild that gets Vulak outside the draft. Our guild has SD’s go for less than Whips since it’s a solid rogue offhand, ranger primary, and warriors who like a mitigation setup.

The axe of resistance sucks.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nothing is going to flip if a SK is burning their mana on aggro spells. There is no guild-specific strategy using Greenmist.

Indeed. There are better weapons than Greenmist you can acquire via raiding, which means Greenmist will eventually be permanently bagged/banked/destroyed.

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The axe of resistance sucks.

Incorrect. Axe of Resistance has more AC, 20 FR, and 20 CR over Greenmist. It's a better item than Greenmist if you need to boost Resists and AC. As you admitted above, you don't need Greenmist's agro proc.

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I like how you casually lump the Vulax in with all the rest.

You casually dropped Soul Defiler, as if it isn't going for large sums of DKP too. If you can save up for a Soul Defiler, you are not generally speaking a casual raider.

=======================

Blood Ember on the other hand will never be replaced with future raid gear, as there is no equivalent. Blood Ember Greaves are going to be used more than a permentally bagged/banked/destroyed weapon that has been replaced by better items.

[Snaggles]

Edit: it seems I paid more for my whip than anyone else. Average whip is about 2/3rds average SD.

Not sure how this all got sidetracked. We were talking mana regen. The SD is useful tool for any SK. The GM and BE is less useful. Even prior to the SD I had my BE gaunts bagged 95% the time. This not a game breaker or maker, or is anything…I’d rather quest a cool sword though to use for tanking than use BE gaunts.

The amount of mana regen you need in a group to not miss BE gaunts at all is like POTG or C1. You can down rank to Clinging and might. Casting it anyways.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Edit: it seems I paid more for my whip than anyone else. Average whip is about 2/3rds average SD.

Not sure how this all got sidetracked. We were mana regen. The SD is useful tool for any SK. The GM and BE is less useful. Even prior to the SD I had my BE gaunts bagged 95% the time. This not a game breaker or maker, or is anything…I’d rather quest a cool sword though to use for tanking than use BE gaunts.

It's perfectly fine if you prefer to not use Blood Ember Clickies, or prefer to use Greenmist. Whatever makes your experience more fun!

This preference doesn't change that Blood Ember is more useful than Greenmist overall from an objective viewpoint. Blood Ember Greaves/Gauntlets/Boots can be used at all levels from 45-60, regardless of gear level to save mana. Greenmist will eventually be replaced by better weapons.

[Snaggles]

Nothing is objective on page 48 of a SK race thread. Hope that helps.