Enchanter vs Shaman. Who is the better money maker?

[Jimjam]

I suppose probably enchanter as they have a broader range of forms they can assume, so they can ensure their money maker matches their client's needs.

The exception is of course unless the client prefers a bear bottom.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem here is you really want to "prove me wrong" and/or insult me (due to the previous thread), rather than understand what I am saying.

What you are talking about is trying to determine the average DPS over the duration of the fight.

Let's say each mob has 2000 HP. We are not going to include pull times into this, because that is quite varied across camps/players.

It takes me 30 seconds to apply all of the roots.

It takes me 81 seconds to apply 9 clicks of Epic, assuming perfect refresh.

The last monster to die will have their DoT started at 111 seconds into the fight. It will take 90 seconds for the DoTs to clear, but only 81 seconds to re-apply, so the last monster to die will have taken full damage and had their DoT re-applied by the 201 second mark. Since the DoT doesn't need to apply full damage to kill a mob with 2000 HP, the fight will take roughly another 66 seconds (11 ticks) for a total of 267 seconds. In that case, the DPS total is 18000 / 267 = 67 DPS. Pet DPS is around 15, so if you add that together it is more like 83 DPS. It will then take roughly 1 minute to Torpor/Canni back 900 mana from the roots.

Three minute root duration means you're either re-applying some roots or tanking some goblins as the fight progresses.

I have never seen a shaman rooting 7-9 goblins at a time in Droga. I see magicians in there once in awhile. At some point the sheer hassle of a mode of gameplay becomes more nuisance than a zone is worth. The main reason to go to Droga in the first place is to be able to gain modest income for extremely low effort. I suspect the real choice between those two for Droga is mage-or-nothing because the typical shaman isn't going to bother doing all that. He'll do something that the magician can't like west wastes dragons instead.

With respect to the actual thread title, the answer is obviously enchanter, and I think absolutely all of us are in agreement on that point.

Danth

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Three minute root duration means you're either re-applying some roots or tanking some goblins as the fight progresses.

I have never seen a shaman rooting 7-9 goblins at a time in Droga. I see magicians in there once in awhile. At some point the sheer hassle of a mode of gameplay becomes more nuisance than a zone is worth. The main reason to go to Droga in the first place is to be able to gain modest income for extremely low effort. I suspect the real choice between those two for Droga is mage-or-nothing because the typical shaman isn't going to bother doing all that. He'll do something that the magician can't like west wastes dragons instead.

With respect to the actual thread title, the answer is obviously enchanter, and I think absolutely all of us are in agreement on that point.

Danth

I've done it before. That's how I got my faction up in Chardok. I am not saying playing a Shaman is easier than playing a Mage in Droga. I am simply pointing out it is very doable, and not that slow.

Everybody is in agreement that Enchanter is the better money maker, and everybody is in agreement a Mage is much easier to play in Droga.

But not everybody has a level 60 Mage, Enchanter, and Shaman to choose between when farming. I myself only have the Shaman, and killing in Droga as a Shaman is fast enough to where it isn't worth my time getting a Mage to 60 just to save a bit of time/effort. Overall that would take longer.

[Danth]

Well yeah, have to use what's available. My own character is a shadow knight and it's the same type of situation: From time to time I'll solo stuff on it that wouldn't cross my mind to think about recommending or bringing up in a discussion of choosing a new character.
Wonder how my droga kill times compare. I've never timed it. (See above comment on my opinion of Droga--I only go there if I feel like being lazy in the first place, so I don't pay much attention). As a melee I'm not pulling 6+ at once but due to shroud of death and epic lifetaps, I don't have to stop, either. Bet it's similar. Off-topic, obviously, but interesting.

With respect to new characters, one of my big gripes with enchanter is it doesn't have a very good way of "taking it easy." It's too reliant on charm; the summoned pet can't be easily controlled. The Enchanter practically demands the player has a strong alternate character for when he wants an easy day. It's probably the strongest overall class, certainly the best money-maker, but I seldom think of it as a particularly good "only" character for a person due to its "high hassle ALL the time" kind of gameplay. Shaman can take it easy if it wants to.

Danth

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

With respect to the actual thread title, the answer is obviously enchanter, and I think absolutely all of us are in agreement on that point.

On P99, absolutely. Meanwhile, this is what classic Enchanters were actually able to do ("in theory" [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.])

PLAYER STRATEGY - ENCHANTER
A THEORYON SOLOING THE ARCH GHOUL MAGI - Livo, Terris-Thule
This isnt anywhere near complete, your welcome to rework this, adn remember this is in *THEORY*
beforehand, make sure your buffed with:
Adorning grace
Rune IV
Resist magic
Clarity

Another other buffs you want, just make sure your FM when the magi pops
recommended spells to be memmed:
Tashania
Gate
Clarity(you can refresh and unmem it before a spawn and replace it with shiftless deeds))
Rune IV
Color flux
Color shift
Color skew
Discordant mind

When the magi pops, you immediatly tash him (dont give me that) and stun him (hes most likely started a nuke) if you have shiftless deeds up, now is the time to cast it. Now basically, my theory works around you stunning him when he starts a nuke and using shiftless to keep the damage done to your pet down as low as possible. when the magi starts running low on health unless a volley of nukes if your manas good, but its good to knock his hp off fast so he doesnt run.
Im sure a lot of you have thought of this or similar strategies, but you wouldnt believe how many people havent considered this. this is just a rough outline on how it could be done, if your up to it go out and try it!

Strategy Submitted on: Wednesday, March 01, 2000

[Raj]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is a really horrible example of napkin math. You aren't factoring in root casting time, canni time to regain root mana, and casting time on the epic.

For an example, Rooting & killing 9 mobs with 1 epic click each is around 193.5 seconds including casting times. That's 66 dps(12825 total epic damage). Then you'd have to go off and find other mobs to root, click epic,. And by the time you root rot a 10th mob, the first 1 will die. Before you get to the 11th cast off, the 2nd mob dies. The reality is you're doing 75-80ish dps when you factor in canni + pet + epic. A mage is easily doing around ~150.

There's no comparison here, I'm not sure why you think shaman dps = mage dps, when you've constantly been proved wrong time and time again.

DSM doesn't like to think or talk about these kinds of things! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Raj [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

DSM doesn't like to think or talk about these kinds of things! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I already proved him wrong. He is assuming perfect DPS on a Mage while not assuming perfect DPS on a Shaman.

[Snaggles]

Sorry for opening Pandora’s Box.

Let’s just get one thing straight: There no “best” class because this is an imbalanced game. There are “better than at ___” classes, pretty much in every case.

I’ve farmed droga with my shaman. It’s sucks. I’ve burned through it with a non-epic mage, it’s way faster. Even summoning and not buffing a pet will go through a ton of goblins for 2 malachite while you sit back and med the mana back. They work differently but about the same as with with a good 60 necro. An epic mage is much faster from observation. A ToV monk is WAY faster but there are issues to that, namely mobility (no bind/gate). I picked a mage because it was easy, boringly easy. You can farm droga drunk and be just fine. Sell your stuff and let the 100% WR bags poof when you log off.

Sham vs Ench is Chardok isn’t fair. Any charm class can kill a PH in seconds and not take a faction hit. An enchanter can do multiple camps to a shamans select few. It’s not “fair” but it’s a fact.

Use what you got, love what you love. I understand that. I’m a ranger at heart. If I could clear the bag space I’d prob farm greens with my ranger. It wouldn’t make it good or even the best. That’s ok though. I’d have fun. Likewise an enchanter would have to be a fool to stick it out in Droga. Sure they would do ok I guess but they could be doing different camps for far more pp/hr and not playing third-fiddle to a monk three-hitting goblins dead and never stopping.

Ps: I know it’s anecdotal but for green farming my mage is the fastest class I have. 60 mage, sham, pal, druid, ranger. If it was faster in some weird way that involved juggling 13 spawns with PE and epic clicks I still would probably go with the mage. Sometimes you just need to kick back and click two buttons.

I also have a clicky robe, pants, and a burnt wood staff. I don’t often use them. The cast time sucks and I’d rather just afk and come back 5 mins later when FM for another 20 mins of mayhem.

[PL_Barton]

My epic mage can kill in Droga and get about 1k an hour. Not great but better than nothing. Shaman def have an easier time farming plat overall.

I'd say my Epic pet could out dps a shaman any day on a single mob even if I had to chain summon the 2nd pet.

[Vivitron]

This thread is making me wonder what class can kill droga goblins the fastest. My bard shreds them too -- aoe snare several (exactly how many is a bit of a gear check) and aoe kite them down.