Iksar Shaman - Solo Challenges?

[Toxigen]

c u in page 100

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The way you worded that it appears you're discussing procs individually. If you're accounting for it, then it's merely a muddled word choice issue, thanks for clearing it up. Due to the length of this particular weapon effect, a late proc means you lose both the un-used portion of the DOT once the mob dies, as well as future procs in the same encounter go largely wasted.

Exactly.

In my example you have 0.5 procs per minute, and the fight lasts 2 minutes.

Worst case is you proc the DoT at the end of combat, meaning you just get 40 damage from the DD and nothing else.

Best case is you proc the DoT on your first swing. That is the full 544 damage basically, because the fight just so happens to last the same duration of the DoT. It will probably be 2 ticks short of the fight, as you would only be in melee combat for 116 seconds out of 132, which is 19 ticks instead of 21. That would only reduce the total damage to 496, which wouldn't significantly drop the DPS number, especially when taking into consideration white damage.

You have a 1/12 chance to proc the weapon per swing, and you have 12 swings in the fight. Each swing has an equal chance to proc the weapon. This means on average you are getting a proc halfway through the fight after 6 attempts.

Halfway through the fight is ~10 ticks. On average you are getting 240 damage from the DoT ticks at 24 damage per tick, and 40 from the DD. That is 280 Damage, which is 2.1 DPS roughly speaking. This is not including white damage from the Hammer, which means you are realistically getting higher DPS when taking that into consideration.

[Danth]

Worst case is when you get a few procs in a row because the effect of the second or third procs goes mostly wasted. If expected proc rate is .5 PPM (due to bracer spam taking up many melee rounds), *useful* proc rate will be fractionally less. I do not think the difference is going to be enough to materially affect the outcome of the simulation. They're broadly similar, and they'll still be broadly similar after such adjustment.

I'm highly interested in clicks-per-minute between the two styles.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Worst case is when you get a few procs in a row because the effect of the second or third procs goes mostly wasted. If expected proc rate is .5 PPM (due to bracer spam taking up many melee rounds), *useful* proc rate will be fractionally less. I do not think the difference is going to be enough to materially affect the outcome of the simulation. They're broadly similar, and they'll still be broadly similar after such adjustment.

I'm highly interested in clicks-per-minute between the two styles.

Oh I already took into account the JBB spam affecting number of swings. We are reducing the number of swings by half already to get the final 0.5 procs per minute number. The Ogre has 135 DEX, so normally they would have 1.3 procs per minute, which translates to 2.6 procs per 2 minute fight. The Blight Hammer has 47 delay, which means you get roughly 2 swings per 8 seconds. So you reduce the number of swings and procs by half. This means you actually get 0.65 procs per minute in my example, I just dropped it to 0.5 for easy numbers.

People also forget that we are not including white damage, and the Ogre can put on more DEX gear for extra proc rates. Trying to quibble over 1 DPS to try and make the DoTing Shaman look a bit better is not really helping the debate.

[Danth]

Your rounding to 1.0 instead of 1.3 should defacto compensate for the other issue brought up, especially if you also ignored white damage.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your rounding to 1.0 instead of 1.3 should defacto compensate for the other issue brought up, especially if you also ignored white damage.

Agreed.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Worst case is when you get a few procs in a row because the effect of the second or third procs goes mostly wasted.

This is what DSM hasn't incorporated yet.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is what DSM hasn't incorporated yet.

I already did. You just don't understand averages, as I keep telling you. This isn't an insult, you are simply not looking at the problem correctly.

The funny part is the DoT has a DD component, so getting 3x procs in a row would still result in 120 damage base, even if 0 ticks occur. On average I would get 5 or so white damage hits assuming half miss and 1 gets dodged. If I got even 20 damage per swing on average, that would be 220 damage minimum in that specific scenario. If I got even 2 ticks of the DoT, that would be 268 damage, which is 2 DPS.

[Danth]

Did you keep track of average actions-per-minute between the two play styles? It was a long thread; I might've missed it. To me that's more important than a few seconds here or there in average killspeed. How much labor is the JBB saving?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Did you keep track of average actions-per-minute between the two play styles? It was a long thread; I might've missed it. To me that's more important than a few seconds here or there in average killspeed. How much labor is the JBB saving?

The DoTing Shaman requires a lot more labor. You have to never miss a server tick when casting spells that are under 6 seconds, even in combat when you can't really do that easily. You have to cast 10x cannibalizes and 5x spells per encounter minimum, plus you have to always be ready to deal with root breaks and spell resists.

JBB Shaman turns on auto attack, slows, sometimes roots to let the pet tank if they need to reduce a bit of damage, and press JBB every 8 seconds.

Both Shamans need to recast Regrowth, Celerity, and Cannibalize once every 15 minutes, with the DoTing Shaman needing to cast an additional Regrowth on the pet.

Basically my example for the DoTing Shaman was assuming the perfect scenario: You never fizzle, never get spell resists, never get root breaks, never take damage (even once), and you never miss a server tick.

This is why JBB is better. You end up saving quite a bit of mana and effort from not having to deal with most of that stuff.