Chanter charming

[derpcake2]

Originally Posted by Wallicker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You want me to do it in unrest? Highkeep? SolA? SolB? Guk? Outdoor zone?

Please do 30 minutes of mowing yellow cons in Sol B, and Lower guk.

Looking forward to seeing the vids, hope to learn a lot.

Let me know if you need help CRing.

[derpcake2]

Originally Posted by Crevex [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah didnt say farming nonstop. Said they will solo it. And i am correct and you know it.

Provide a vid of you breaking efreeti solo and soloing Djarn, without outside buffs, and without stuff like wort potions.

Will pay 3k, its all I have atm.

[DMN]

Originally Posted by Crevex [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah didnt say farming nonstop. Said they will solo it. And i am correct and you know it.

A lot of classes can "solo it" on those ground.

[derpcake2]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A lot of classes can "solo it" on those ground.

I found him up at 3% and riposted him to death on my gnome warrior.

Fucking OP gnome warriors.

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by derpcake2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He can cast at least 5 ice comets, so 2k+ manapool.

Manasieve takes about 300 at 50, so you are looking at at least 7 casts.

Manasieve has an 11 second recast (3 sec cast + 8 sec cooldown), so you'd be looking at 77 seconds of casting nothing besides sieve. In practice it would be more due to his manaregen.

Djarn is a lvl 50 mob, doubles for 140. If he does more then 77 dps to your pet, the pet would be dead in the 77 seconds it takes you to manasieve the mob.

It is obviously far better to haste and arm the pet, and just burn Djarn while timing stuns.

Mana sieve causes massive threat, have fun with that spell on him

[Crevex]

Originally Posted by Benanov [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Was in Paw last night, Enchanter had a charmed gnoll pet. The Mage gave the pet two Swords of Runes. It was not fair. It was not remotely fair.

(The only other time I have seen "not remotely fair" is fear-kiting with 3 rogues in the group.)

When people say chanters are OP, this is the scenario we're talking about. We didn't need a tank, and we didn't need DPS. We had a full group simply because we took all comers.

And yes, part of it is group support. When charm breaks, I had Holy Might ready to go (plus I Courage Line/Symbol chanters when they're charming). Its 6 second stun is generally enough time to get any charmed mob back under control.

Saying chanters have to be able to solo named rooms if they're to be considered OP is a valid request but honestly being able to replace entire roles in a typical pickup group (tank, DPS) while at the same time bringing other requested functions (CC, Clarity) is what makes them OP.

Your post clearly sums up the situation. There is a serious discussion to be had about enchanters and their effects on the game as a whole. There is a camp of people (non-min/maxers) that believe p99 enchanters trivialize classic content. In the interest of playing on a classic server, to emulate a classic experience, enchanters should be rebalanced to reflect how they actually were played on live. Its really not an outrageous view point. Perhaps if it were articulated less as an attack on enchanters and more as a discussion about the health of the game, like your post, then people wont get so defensive about it.

Classic mechanics argument doesn't matter at his point. The dev's have made plenty of executive decision for the health of the server. Now if they dev's are happy with things as they are, then i wish they would make a statement, so we can put this whole thing to rest, accept it and move on.

[Crevex]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A lot of classes can "solo it" on those ground.

which classes?

[bum3]

Let me give you a point of view from a Cleric whose wife is a pretty damn good enchanter and who has grouped with many other enchanters since sometimes during the night when you need group mates to fill a group there are only druids, ench, and shamans lfg and on my many alts.

A- My wife charms mostly low blues and light blues. Her charm breaks in spurts. She'll hold on to it for 5-10 mobs without a break. But then it will break 3-5x in a row, leaving her OOM. She also CC's (one of the few who do). The charm seems to break almost every time 3+ mobs are pulled, without fail.
B- Most enchanters want to be mages. They don't want to CC/buffbuff, stating they can either CC/buff or charm, that they don't have enough mana for both. Which is true. This isn't blue and people aren't twinked out with a extra 150cha or extra 200+hp.
C- When grouping on my alt.. most enchanters who charm die a lot. Because breaking during a fight hurts and if group cleric doesn't stun it immediately ench will die to the hasted/buffed pet in 3 rounds of attack. Specially with rogue mobs able to front backstab sometimes, for some reason.
D- Other people in group exacerbate this issue because they tell the ench to charm above all else even to point of no CC... but then they don't support charm breaks. They even blame ench for wipes because ench died to it's own charm after the X class dotted it on accident and ench couldn't fast mez and recharm it. A fully buffed and hasted pet who then moves to healer will wipe a group fast during a multiple pull.

So while enchanters are super powerful when charming, they can be more of a hindrance than a boon sometimes. I've noticed that after 40 this is less of an issue since mobs seem to level out with hp/dmg and the ench keeps growing.

[TripSin]

Originally Posted by Crevex [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In the interest of playing on a classic server, to emulate a classic experience, enchanters should be rebalanced to reflect how they actually were played on live. Its really not an outrageous view point.

But that is actually kind of silly. You're essentially arguing to "make it classic" by making it literally even less classic. If you want to nerf how people play a class like enchanter on P99 in 2019/2020 in the most classic way possible then you would need to do things like force everyone to play on 56k dial up modems, mem blur everyone's accrued knowledge of the game over two decades, disallow the last two decades' worth of hardware and software advancement, and etc.

[Benanov]

My point in my earlier post was to refocus the discussion not on high-end min/max content, but on garden-variety grouping content.

However, given this, I might consider changing my position:

Originally Posted by bum3 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

D- Other people in group exacerbate this issue because they tell the ench to charm above all else even to point of no CC... but then they don't support charm breaks.

The proper response to that is "it sucks to suck, doesn't it?" and to stop charming.

If they inquire further you can educate them upon their duties when charm breaks.

I've been in groups where both enchanters wanted to charm. That's not happening. I don't need both enchanters dealing with charm breaks at the same time - and I'm pretty sure that's the original definition of Murphy's Law.

"If there are exactly two ways to do something, and one of them results in catastrophic failure, then someone will do it that way."

--

Enchanter charm requires taking on certain risks for a massive boost in power. With a knowledgeable partner/group etc, those risks are massively reduced. Without those risk reductions, it's a hop skip and a jump to a TPW.

I think the design is fine as-is. Charm never tells you when it's going to break, and so as a result you are riding a bucking bronco. You're going to get thrown off, it's just a matter of when. Haste your pet or give it too many advantages, and those will come at you once charm breaks.