EQNext Discussion

[Vaildez]

We really don't know yet what the combat will actually be like... but from what they were describing it sounded very much like GW2 which IMO has the best combat of any current MMO.

[Zanti]

I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and I would love it if the managed to create something that has meaningful gameplay beyond running around as a demi god till you get bored. But they sure don't make it easy.

It would be nice if a MMO developer would, for once just come out and clearly define what it is that they are going to do and why with their core mechanics. Instead every time something new comes out it's like they feel the need to put one over on everyone either by being as obscure or misleading as possible to get more sales. They know that these games don't do well but they apparently don't know why.

WTB a niche game that knows what it wants to accomplish and how to do so.

[Weekapaug]

Originally Posted by Rhuma7 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

From what I saw of twitch chat there were clearly people that were jizzing themselves on what they saw.

There was also a definite group of people(majority) that saw it as dog shit.

This game will be shit and I will tell you why.

Trying to reinvent the wheel is always a bad idea. Filling your game with gimmicks is not going to make your game any more fun after the 500th time you've done it.

You might think what you saw was awesome and it certainly has seen a lot of work, the sun/moon lighting changes are definitely something thats cool but after a couple hours playing you're not going to give a shit.

The dumbing down of combat can be blamed for pushing for the console market which is stupid if you're marketing your game to your playerbase consisting of nothing but COMPUTER GAMERS!

It really looks like they went full retard with the voxel based gaming and tried to incorporate an MMO into the minecraft world, which sounds pretty cool but at the same time you need to really focus on the MMO side of things.

People forget that WoW was the offspring of EQ1 and it was successful for a few reasons.

The biggest reason is they fixed some problems that were inherent in EQ1 with raid content and that EQ never took into consideration that you actually played with other people (lol) and that not every person on the server was able to partake in end game raids and that there would always be someone left out. Instancing was a fix for this problem and I feel was directly influenced by Furor and Tigole's experience being in bleeding edge raiding while at the same time were very wise and looked at what their success was doing to the rest of the server.

Unfortunately, they didn't really fix all of the problems which is what WoW AND curent everquest1 is facing now. MMOs in their current state are a disease on themselves, with the constant need for new content to keep the subs going from month to month. It will eventually lead to massive bloat and from what I saw, the complete rehaul of gear from expansion to expansion was to combat this issue, by simply making it un-needed to progress through 5 expansions and literally years of raiding to even get to the stuff that matters. We all have our opinions on that and im sure we can all come up with our own theories of what could have been done. I personally agree with sirken(We had talked about this in his twitch a few days ago) That MMOs really need to keep their content fresh, by reusing old zones instead of adding 30-40 every expansion.

SOE is going to fail with EQnext simply because their trying something new... It is a real shame but their doing it for the greater good, to put forth newer ideas and to give... up and coming developers a chance to see what works and what doesn't, so they can take the ideas and make it better for the next generation of MMOs.

Minecraft the MMO isn't what we need right now. We just need a fresh new world with the same tried and true mechanics with a few fixes for the long-term player.


For those who don't want to read the wall of text, MMOs need a solid core of content, with very little gimmicks to sell their shit. A good product sells itself as any salesman will tell you. WoW isn't some revelation of the MMO, it was just a very solid game with a few fixes from Everquest. I haven't seen anything from EQnext that is trying to fix the inherent problems in MMOs. Just a lot of gimmicks.

Excellent points. Except you have no idea how the game will actually play, what the actual combat dynamic will be, death penalty, how raiding will go, etc etc. You can't make these kinds of determinations based on watching what we did today. The vast majority of what we saw was about graphics and the dynamic world. That's what's new. You have zero idea what will be new or old in the actual gameplay. Just assumptions.

The world builder is being released as a separate game. I really don't know how that makes EverQuest Next "mmo minecraft" when you aren't even talking about EverQuest Next. It's a separate game that most people probably wont even play. I really don't know how that translates to anything you said.

BUT if I had to bet the farm, you are probably right. It just annoys me to no end when people make snap assumptions about games that no one has even played yet based on the first presentation...In this case, basicly, just of what the world and 2 toons look like. They are attempting to break new ground into having a truly dynamic environment. That has exactly nothing to do with what the gameplay will be like with combat, raiding, etc. Not to mention, you simultaneously say that this game will fail, as if you know this, after just stating that the problem with MMOs is that they constantly expand new content rather than improve existing areas.....Isn't that precisely what this dynamic world concept they are going with will do? /boggle

It's day one and we saw nothing that would answer any of the issues you bring up, one way or another. I think people just bitch to bitch at times like this. No matter how much you or I don't like it, they simply are not going to redo original EQ with the same formula. For a million reasons, but they just aren't. But that doesn't mean that a new game that you or I choose to play or not is "going to fail," as you state.

And if you want to call a player/event changable dynamic world that goes so far as to impact mob behavior and populations, not to mention layers and layers of content possible underground etc, which can be designed by players if they so choose, "a gimmick" that's up to you. I call it groundbreaking and worth having a good, albeit cautious, look at when it becomes available.

I'm pretty sure in '97 or '98 there were top-down view rpg gamers calling putting a first person view on EverQuest a "gimmick" since pretty much only shooters had it up to that point. Where would we be now if the people who make games actually listened, eh?

[kaev]

Looks like ass. Why would I want to play PixelQuest:ThePreteenCartoonJunkieEdition? Oh, that's right, I don't. Seriously, even if I could somehow get past the bullshit shoulderpads bullshit... multiclassing??? really???

It's like they said, "Hey guys. I've been thinking. The only things Vanguard didn't fuck up to a fare-thee-well were costuming and class design, let's go for it!"

[Ephirith]

You cynics are too late, Smedley's balls are already lodged firmly in my mouth and I'm going to be championing this stupendous creation until it dies, three months after release.

[Weekapaug]

Oh and for the record, I thought what we saw today looked great. Will it be? No way to tell.

For me, the deal sealer or breaker is how the combat dynamic feels. It's why original EQ and DAoC are the only two MMOs I've truly always loved. All other's have failed, although Vanguard isn't too bad with it. EQ2 and WoW both had a soft "fly by wire" feel that I can't deal with.

And until I actually experience that myself, all judgements as to the quality of the game are reserved and I, for one, will keep an open mind about it.

Nothing wrong with being skeptical or having an opinion, but Jesus H. It's day one. Cut them a little slack, considering none of us really still know anything about the game.

[Kimmie]

Originally Posted by Ghordo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Whats so hard about literally remaking eq1.....

[Rhuma7]

Originally Posted by Weekapaug [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The vast majority of what we saw was about graphics and the dynamic world. That's what's new. You have zero idea what will be new or old in the actual gameplay. Just assumptions.

In this case, basicly, just of what the world and 2 toons look like. They are attempting to break new ground into having a truly dynamic environment.

It's day one and we saw nothing that would answer any of the issues you bring up, one way or another.

It's all about time and resources. They have put a retarded amount of effort into what was shown and you heard it yourself although it was subtle... They at this moment are writing the lore for the game, so all the actual content, the day to day shit people are actually going to do in the game, are in the alpha stages.


The game is due to release in 6 months? I didn't actually hear this myself if there was even a clear timeframe for the release but that doesn't bode well.

For me personally, I don't need to see A to Z of a game to see if it is going to be the next coming of jesus to the MMO market.

They have spent far too much time working on the world and the way it works instead of putting their grand amount of resources into making the world flush with content.

There's already a game out that has almost all of their "holy grails" its called Cube world.

Basically, if you have followed MMOs for the past decade like I have, you have seen that the new business model is to get the game playable and put in content after launch. I, personally, dont want that shit and it leads to players feeling ripped off and bored. Source: Rift.

EDIT: Then you have games like vanguard that are BARELY even playable with no balancing or any sort of polish due to unrealistic timelines.

[Masq]

Originally Posted by Vaildez [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We really don't know yet what the combat will actually be like... but from what they were describing it sounded very much like GW2 which IMO has the best combat of any current MMO.

if by best, you mean worst.

I agree fully

[Weekapaug]

I have, for going on 15 years, actually. And I agree with you about Rift. All these new games, really, and I include EQ2 and WoW in that. It's why I'm here. Again, not that I wouldn't agree with you if I had to bet....But I don't, and everything you are saying are assumptions based on virtually no real information.

We got a cursory overview of the world and a first look at the game environment today....and 2 toons. That's it. They introduced the concept of what they are going for with classes, but offered no real info. They showed no UI. No gameplay other than just to see what the fight animations look like. Concepts of itemization, but that's it. No real info on the storyline, what cities will be available, levels, or anything else. NOTHING that constitutes the meat of how any MMO actually plays.

And I'm not aware of how much time is too much time spent on what and frankly, neither are you. It's their game....Let them develop it and judge it when it gets released, or at least when you actually PLAY the beta. When there is a lack of content to your liking THEN say that, but you are just making assumptions and stating them as facts.

Vanguard is a bad example. It got fucked by Microsoft at the final stage of it's development and released under precarious circumstances. The game literally changed hands just before release and was kicked out the door. The rug was literally pulled out from under its feet at the worst possible time. The EverQuest franchise has been with Sony for well over a decade and is it's flagship MMO series. I would like to think they learned a lesson with EQ2. It would be hard to imagine they didn't.

It's day one. How about giving them the benefit of the doubt before making sweeping conclusions about something you really know nothing about. None of us do.