******Official politics thread ******

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by DinoTriz2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Confirmed Communist.

I call bullshit.

no, that's always been my spot (upper left, but closer to center). it's because I've a collection of views hat are right leaning and another collection that are left leaning. people generally only hear the parts they disagree with, which is why when Wonkie hears my authoritarian leaning arguments, he labels it fascism. in reality, I think the only reasonable forms of government exist on a downward sloping line from totalitarianism to anarchy-capitalism, though I wouldn't really prefer either extreme. Generally speaking I believe that the more the support the state extends unto the people, the more it must require of them.

The upper right doesn't make sense because business interests can infiltrate and corrupt the robust government. That isn't a problem in the lower right because the government is small and of limited use, so businesses keep one another in check via competition. Of course SOME regulation is required.

The lower left doesn't make sense because the government will bakrupt itself financing failure. People don't do things they don't need or want to. You can't be free and cared for at the same time. It just doesn't work. Your caretaker must have a say in your behavior. In the upper left that isn't a problem.


my general ethos though is conservative (I.e. Strong belief in individual responsibility)

[Thorondor]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

no, that's always been my spot (upper left, but closer to center). it's because I've a collection of views hat are right leaning and another collection that are left leaning. people generally only hear the parts they disagree with, which is why when Wonkie hears my authoritarian leaning arguments, he labels it fascism. in reality, I think the only reasonable forms of government exist on a downward sloping line from totalitarianism to anarchy-capitalism, though I wouldn't really prefer either extreme. Generally speaking I believe that the more the support the state extends unto the people, the more it must require of them.

The upper right doesn't make sense because business interests can infiltrate and corrupt the robust government. That isn't a problem in the lower right because the government is small and of limited use, so businesses keep one another in check via competition. Of course SOME regulation is required.

The lower left doesn't make sense because the government will bakrupt itself financing failure. People don't do things they don't need or want to. You can't be free and cared for at the same time. It just doesn't work. Your caretaker must have a say in your behavior. In the upper left that isn't a problem.


my general ethos though is conservative (I.e. Strong belief in individual responsibility)

I would let MM live.

I would probably even let Wonkie live because he can illuminate blind spots.

[feniin]

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[feniin]

I think that's farther from center than before!

[Wonkie]

Originally Posted by Thorondor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would let MM live.

I would probably even let Wonkie live because he can illuminate blind spots.

let dino live too hes good at playing [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[DinoTriz2]

Netflix documentary claims walruses are jumping off cliffs due to climate change.

It's later found out that scientists dispute their claim and the walruses were scared off the cliffs by the film crew's drones.

[Thorondor]

Originally Posted by Wonkie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

let dino live too hes good at playing [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dino gets a pass...unless I'm feeling insecure in my seat of power, and want to make sure I've covered my tracks on the path to power by exterminating those I utilized to seize it along the path. Then I would snuff him, but in a gentle way.

[JurisDictum]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The lower left doesn't make sense because the government will bakrupt itself financing failure. People don't do things they don't need or want to. You can't be free and cared for at the same time. It just doesn't work. Your caretaker must have a say in your behavior. In the upper left that isn't a problem.


my general ethos though is conservative (I.e. Strong belief in individual responsibility)

You can solve the problem of bad programs that encourage bad behavior. You cannot solve the problem of wealth consolidation and corrupt non-competitive practices among the top end of the business community.

Unfettered capitalism is not freedom at all because unfettered capitalism always produces bought out governments. Bought out corrupt governments are libertarian governments. That is the logical conclusion of "economic freedom."

My issue with reasonable freedom-loving small government types is they unwittingly play right into the hands if big business and elite interests. They look at bad government programs and say "this is what happens with big government" or "this is the problem with government doing anything" etc. Rather than just trying to fix the actual program -- they are used as pawns to lobby for "more freedom" and slowly deprive later generations of necessary mechanisms to fight big business -- like unions and safety nets.

You can't square that circle. Just getting rid of government doesn't provide opportunity to the little guy over time. It is what big business interests want. For the most part anyway. Some are more reliant on government contracts like the defense and prison industries (funny enough -- most libertarians just happen to be OK with defense spending and harsh "law and order" policies -- not to mention "privatization"). But most don't want much out of the government other than big trade agreements -- which are toted as libertarian-friendly "free trade" policies.

Only correctly designed government allows mechanisms to maximize the potential of ordinary people. But it is complicated and takes a certain level of IQ to follow debates around policy details -- so no one does it.

It's all "look at these liberals" and "the government is bad we need less of it." And these god damn lemmings will continue to shout these slogans designed by big business until every last one of their ancestors is fucked. Even the ones that think they are making it are putting far too much faith in their genetic line to always land on top. It only takes a few fuck ups in family history to undo it all.

Not to mention the whole god damn thing is primitive ego trip anyway. Rather than "greater good" its all about perpetuating your seed as some kind of special organism that blesses us all with its very presence on this rock.

Who knows what humans are truly capable of. Maybe we will never find out because we are too busy trying to get ahead of everyone else by sucking up to those already high above us.

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can solve the problem of bad programs that encourage bad behavior. You cannot solve the problem of wealth consolidation and corrupt non-competitive practices among the top end of the business community.

Unfettered capitalism is not freedom at all because unfettered capitalism always produces bought out governments. Bought out corrupt governments are libertarian governments. That is the logical conclusion of "economic freedom."

My issue with reasonable freedom-loving small government types is they unwittingly play right into the hands if big business and elite interests. They look at bad government programs and say "this is what happens with big government" or "this is the problem with government doing anything" etc. Rather than just trying to fix the actual program -- they are used as pawns to lobby for "more freedom" and slowly deprive later generations of necessary mechanisms to fight big business -- like unions and safety nets.

You can't square that circle. Just getting rid of government doesn't provide opportunity to the little guy over time. It is what big business interests want. For the most part anyway. Some are more reliant on government contracts like the defense and prison industries (funny enough -- most libertarians just happen to be OK with defense spending and harsh "law and order" policies -- not to mention "privatization"). But most don't want much out of the government other than big trade agreements -- which are toted as libertarian-friendly "free trade" policies.

Only correctly designed government allows mechanisms to maximize the potential of ordinary people. But it is complicated and takes a certain level of IQ to follow debates around policy details -- so no one does it.

It's all "look at these liberals" and "the government is bad we need less of it." And these god damn lemmings will continue to shout these slogans designed by big business until every last one of their ancestors is fucked. Even the ones that think they are making it are putting far too much faith in their genetic line to always land on top. It only takes a few fuck ups in family history to undo it all.

Not to mention the whole god damn thing is primitive ego trip anyway. Rather than "greater good" its all about perpetuating your seed as some kind of special organism that blesses us all with its very presence on this rock.

Who knows what humans are truly capable of. Maybe we will never find out because we are too busy trying to get ahead of everyone else by sucking up to those already high above us.

if you manage for the bad behavior the government skews to upper left, which works fine. not really interested in the right/left argument. Either one can work, but if a government is to the left, it must be authoritarian and if it is to the right it must be libertarian. the authoritarian right and libertarian left are clownville.

there are always going to be people smarter, better looking and more competent than you, many more, some vastly so. But, there will always be those below you and the harder you work with what you have the better you'll do. whether you like the game or not, you can't win if you refuse to play.

[Thorondor]

Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not to mention the whole god damn thing is primitive ego trip anyway. Rather than "greater good" its all about perpetuating your seed as some kind of special organism that blesses us all with its very presence on this rock.

You being perpetuated is the greatest thing that ever happened to you. It allowed you to experience the difference intrinsic to being away from the unity your soul desired to experience when it left the other plane. Jesus loves you. Even though you don't love yourself, and it's sad that you've lost sight of that, in your attempts to bring the unity you left, in order to experience difference, into the plane that non-difference is alien to.