AOW + Defensive

[koros]

Originally Posted by Alde [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Good stuff Faz. Tanking with shield is classic. Hope we'll have mobs tuned so shield AC will actually provide advantage when tanking trucks like AoW.

That's not classic at all. Also, looks like AoW has an 18ish delay?

[pasi]

Originally Posted by Alde [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Tanking with shield is classic. Hope we'll have mobs tuned so shield AC will actually provide advantage when tanking trucks like AoW.

This is wrong on so many levels.

[Daldaen]

Wat? Warriors using a shield for ridiculous damage bosses is classic as fuck... Shield AC is hot and extra ripostes from a second weapon is not.

You just had to control your aggro better as a DPS class.

Maybe the warriors you all rolled with were incompetent?

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wat? Warriors using a shield for ridiculous damage bosses is classic as fuck... Shield AC is hot and extra ripostes from a second weapon is not.

You just had to control your aggro better as a DPS class.

Maybe the warriors you all rolled with were incompetent?

from PoP on

[koros]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wat? Warriors using a shield for ridiculous damage bosses is classic as fuck... Shield AC is hot and extra ripostes from a second weapon is not.

You just had to control your aggro better as a DPS class.

Maybe the warriors you all rolled with were incompetent?

Christ. No. Warriors didn't use shields, they didn't do jack shit. You have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. If you care about ripostes THAT much you'd be better off with a 2 hander for better damage and less ripostes than a one hander.


Old 06-17-2004 #10
Kavhok
EQ Developer

Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 20
Rep Power: 0
Kavhok is on a distinguished road
The cap on AC in the Velious era wasn't a soft cap; it was a hard cap that had been there from day 1. After a certain point, which differed for each class, the benefit of more AC didn't just diminish - it dropped to nothing.

The change I referred to, just before PoP, changed that from a hard cap to a soft cap. You get a percentage of the amount over that soft cap. Shields increase both your total and your soft cap, making them more effective than any other item with equal AC. Your mitigation AAs, level, and class also affect the cap and the percentage return for AC over it.

Separate from this, there are diminishing returns if your AC is much greater than the NPC's attack. This is due to the nature of the formulas that produce the probability distributions that have been well documented on this board.

Does that help?

- Kavhok, SOE

[Nirgon]

Yeah never saw a shield used by a warrior (classic thru Velious) raiding. You had to keep up the highest threat possible so the raid mob (like AoW) would be dead before the clerics went OOM.

[Daldaen]

I recall them using shields during AoW... Perhaps those AoW runs were during PoP though...

Even still, warriors aren't hitting the hardcap here with current gear, they would need a shield to hit it no?

And 2-handers, while a reduction in ripostes, almost none provide a proc to help hold aggro. There's one from NToV iirc.

[koros]

Sorry that was rude. I'm just frustrated by false information being disseminated which works antithetically to the goal of p99. People have pretty flawed memories about things 10+ years ago.

[Ele]

Cleaned up to show only AOW swings from Faz's post, Flurries aren't identified with a text prompt in the original parse for some reason.

Test - vs - The Avatar of War
Attempts 101 100%
Missed 14 13.86%
Dodged 4 3.96%
Parried 6 5.94%
Blocked 0 0%
Riposted 6 5.94%
Absorbed 0 0%
4 1 0.99%
236 1 0.99%
255 1 0.99%
259 2 1.98%
276 7 6.93%
299 2 1.98%
321 2 1.98%
344 1 0.99%
366 2 1.98%
389 2 1.98%
411 1 0.99%
434 4 3.96%
456 1 0.99%
501 2 1.98%
524 2 1.98%
546 2 1.98%
569 1 0.99%
591 3 2.97%
614 4 3.96%
636 2 1.98%
659 3 2.97%
681 1 0.99%
704 24 23.76%

Tanking summary for: Test --- Total damage: 37408 --- Avg hit: 526 --- Swings: 101 --- Defended: 16 (15.8%) --- Hit: 71 (70.3%) --- Missed: 14 (13.9%) --- Accuracy: 83.5% --- Dodged: 4 (4.5%) --- Parried: 6 (5.9%) --- Blocked: 0 (0%) --- Riposted: 6 (6.3%) --- Absorbed: 0 (0%)


[Mon Mar 18 19:50:22 2002] The Avatar of War tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:22 2002] The Avatar of War tries to slash YOU, but YOUR magical skin absorbs the blow!
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:22 2002] The Avatar of War tries to slash YOU, but YOUR magical skin absorbs the blow!
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:22 2002] The Avatar of War tries to slash YOU, but YOU riposte!
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:22 2002] The Avatar of War bashes YOU for 236 points of damage.

[Mon Mar 18 19:50:23 2002] The Avatar of War tries to slash YOU, but YOU parry!
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:23 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 614 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:23 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 704 points of damage.

[Mon Mar 18 19:50:25 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 614 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:25 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 704 points of damage.

[Mon Mar 18 19:50:27 2002] The Avatar of War tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:27 2002] The Avatar of War tries to slash YOU, but YOU dodge!
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:27 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 704 points of damage.

[Mon Mar 18 19:50:29 2002] The Avatar of War tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:29 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 389 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:29 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 276 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:29 2002] The Avatar of War tries to slash YOU, but YOU parry!
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:29 2002] The Avatar of War tries to slash YOU, but YOU dodge!
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:30 2002] The Avatar of War tries to bash YOU, but misses!
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:30 2002] The Avatar of War tries to slash YOU, but YOU riposte!
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:30 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 704 points of damage.

[Mon Mar 18 19:50:32 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 276 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:32 2002] The Avatar of War tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:32 2002] The Avatar of War tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:32 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 704 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:32 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 704 points of damage.

[Mon Mar 18 19:50:34 2002] The Avatar of War tries to slash YOU, but YOU parry!
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:34 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 344 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:34 2002] The Avatar of War tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:34 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 681 points of damage.

[Mon Mar 18 19:50:36 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 704 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:36 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 591 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:37 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 524 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:37 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 704 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:37 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 434 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:37 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 659 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:38 2002] The Avatar of War tries to bash YOU, but misses!

[Mon Mar 18 19:50:39 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 636 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:39 2002] The Avatar of War tries to slash YOU, but YOU parry!
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:39 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 704 points of damage.

[Mon Mar 18 19:50:41 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 591 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:41 2002] The Avatar of War tries to slash YOU, but YOU riposte!
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:41 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 704 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:41 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 546 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:42 2002] The Avatar of War tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:42 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 704 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:42 2002] The Avatar of War tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:42 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 501 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:42 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 704 points of damage.

[Mon Mar 18 19:50:44 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 276 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:44 2002] The Avatar of War tries to slash YOU, but YOU dodge!
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:44 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 704 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:44 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 276 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:44 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 659 points of damage.

[Mon Mar 18 19:50:46 2002] The Avatar of War bashes YOU for 259 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:46 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 389 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:46 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 659 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:46 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 704 points of damage.

[Mon Mar 18 19:50:48 2002] The Avatar of War tries to slash YOU, but YOU dodge!
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:48 2002] The Avatar of War tries to slash YOU, but YOU riposte!
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:48 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 704 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:49 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 276 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:49 2002] The Avatar of War tries to slash YOU, but YOU parry!

[Mon Mar 18 19:50:50 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 321 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:51 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 704 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:51 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 299 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:51 2002] The Avatar of War tries to slash YOU, but YOU parry!

[Mon Mar 18 19:50:53 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 704 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:53 2002] The Avatar of War tries to slash YOU, but YOU riposte!
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:54 2002] The Avatar of War kicks YOU for 255 points of damage.

[Mon Mar 18 19:50:55 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 4 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:55 2002] The Avatar of War tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:55 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 434 points of damage.

[Mon Mar 18 19:50:57 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 704 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:57 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 704 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:57 2002] The Avatar of War tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:57 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 704 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:58 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 704 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:58 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 434 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:58 2002] The Avatar of War tries to slash YOU, but YOU riposte!
[Mon Mar 18 19:50:58 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 366 points of damage.

[Mon Mar 18 19:51:00 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 524 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:51:00 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 434 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:51:00 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 456 points of damage.

[Mon Mar 18 19:51:02 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 704 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:51:02 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 321 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:51:02 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 299 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:51:02 2002] The Avatar of War bashes YOU for 259 points of damage.

[Mon Mar 18 19:51:04 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 569 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:51:04 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 276 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:51:04 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 276 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:51:04 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 614 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:51:04 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 704 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:51:05 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 704 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:51:05 2002] The Avatar of War tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Mon Mar 18 19:51:05 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 546 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:51:05 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 591 points of damage.

[Mon Mar 18 19:51:08 2002] The Avatar of War tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Mon Mar 18 19:51:08 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 501 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:51:08 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 614 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:51:09 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 411 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:51:09 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 366 points of damage.
[Mon Mar 18 19:51:09 2002] The Avatar of War slashes YOU for 636 points of damage.

[koros]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I recall them using shields during AoW... Perhaps those AoW runs were during PoP though...

Even still, warriors aren't hitting the hardcap here with current gear, they would need a shield to hit it no?

And 2-handers, while a reduction in ripostes, almost none provide a proc to help hold aggro. There's one from NToV iirc.

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=31305

is actually a pretty solid tanking weapon vs very strong targets, but unless you wanna blow mallets or something on every mob you'd be better off with SoDs vs most things.

People will hit ac hardcap if they aren't already very quickly into velious. It's a lot lower than you'd think. I believe it was 289 worn? It's on the forums somewhere.