******Official politics thread ******

[JurisDictum]

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You heard of brain drain? If China empowered their citizens they would’ve passed us by now. They will remain middle income and have Vietnam, India, and japan as perpetual enemies if they continue their current path. You seem to misunderstand what made the West centuries ahead of everyone else on this planet. It was the empiwerment of Human Resources. People bought into a system that gave them something they’d never had before: some modicum of freedom. I know, I know, our government allow pharmaceutical companies to kill us with opioids, it allows Amazon and google to run our lives, it tells lesser nations what they must do and crushes them economically resist. And yet our network of trad and investment has moved billions from poverty. It really is a matter of perspective. I don’t see the use of pretending your homeland and ancestors are or were evil, especially since that is an objectively false assertion. God Bless America. The real God, not allah or Buddha or Judas (or whoever the Hebrews worship)

Primary what hot America ahead of the rest of the world after WW2 was superior industrial power. Russia was doing OK historically when pikemen and muskets were still relevant (as Throndor points out), but it wasn't until Stalin industrialized the country that we fell into what as referred to as a "Bi-Polar" international order.

Before that, Russia was mostly known for humiliating defeats around the WW1 era (no industrialization, a "sleeping giant"). Germany developed ahead not by copying the Anglo model (England/United States), but by authoritarian collectivism.

As far as I know America -- so far -- has had the edge on advanced industrial technology. They did a good job on capitalizing on their lead from WW2. The problem is that China might actually be better at producing hackers and "cybersecurity". IDK -- I just hear a lot about cyber security and Chinese/Russian hackers. It seems like they may have more per capita.

There was nothing anti-American per se in my post. I was just pointing out that we should be able to stop posturing and flag waving for 5 minutes to acknowledge authoritarian collectivism has its merits. Many of the posters hear are spouting a line of propaganda spread throughout this country to prevent well-born people from being taxed. it was invented by those people for those people.

And what exactly are we trying to do with all this power we keep accumulating/defending? From what I can tell, we want to allow a privileged few to "transcendend" humanity with genetic modifications, life extension and cyber implants. And rest of us are used as fodder for that goal. Maybe a little bit of collective organizing is a good idea before this becomes some kind of dystopia post-apocalyptic poverty zones with a few armored pleasure domes.

And all that "lifting people out of poverty" shit is mostly just accounting tricks to make philanthropists feel better about their shitty money-grubbing behavior. Yea lets count a McDonald's worker that barely feed themselves a "not poor" and feel good about ourselves...many of those motherfuckers were happier subsistence farming.

[Thorondor]

You're assuming they ONLY industrialized, and did so at athe rate that they did, because of socialism. Where is your proof that Tsar Nicholas and his would-be successors were anti-industrialization? How can you say, that Russia's industrialization would not have happened anyways. For all intents and purposes, history has proven Russia to be fairly competent, and contemporarily "current" in terms of world power, regardless of what sociopolitical system of rule that they operate under, so how can you claim "socialism" as causual?

[JurisDictum]

Originally Posted by Thorondor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're assuming they ONLY industrialized, and did so at athe rate that they did, because of socialism. Where is your proof that Tsar Nicholas and his would-be successors were anti-industrialization? How can you say, that Russia's industrialization would not have happened anyways. For all intents and purposes, history has proven Russia to be fairly competent, and contemporarily "current" in terms of world power, regardless of what sociopolitical system of rule that they operate under, so how can you claim "socialism" as causual?

Well you can just look at the widely observed fact that outside of the first big powers (England/US) -- it always took massive government intervention and societal organization to "catch-up" in industrialization. Socialism (the Marxist-Lennist style) is just the format Russia used. There are other forms like Hitler's Fascism (and the Fascist-style nationalistic military rule that preceded that in Germany). Or in the case of Japan they could relay a great deal on informal social compacts...the honor/propriety concepts are so strong that they didn't need as many laws.

But the whole laissez faire system was only ever successful for the first industrializing power.

All that being said...Stalinism in particular seemed more successful at militarization and scientific advancemnt in the long run. Hitler's government was more self-destructive...but admittedly pretty strong military wise.

I look at us as that civilization that is way ahead on score in a game of Civilization -- so we think we're doing everything right and its impossible to lose. But comebacks do happen. And we've only been this way a few hundred years or less. Early game, Greece had the top score, then Rome, then China...etc...Meanwhile China is catching up.

[Thorondor]

Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Primary what hot America ahead of the rest of the world after WW2 was superior industrial power.

As far as I know America -- so far -- has had the edge on advanced industrial technology. They did
There was nothing anti-American per se in my post. I was just pointing out that we should be able to stop posturing and flag waving for 5 minutes to acknowledge authoritarian collectivism has its merits. Many of the posters hear are spouting a line of propaganda spread throughout this country to prevent well-born people from being taxed. it was invented by those people for those people.

Primarily what got Nazi Germany ahead of both America, and Russia, before pretty much the entire industrialized world had to team up to stop the, before and during world war 2, was flag waving collectivism, and death labor work camps.

Nazi Germany's meteoric rise occured in less than 2 decades following absolute and utter decimation at the hands of Russia and the Western world, mind you.

If we're judging a system of governance by its "effectiveness" than Fascism has Capitalism and Socialism beat in spades.

[Wonkie]

goalposts, bye

[Patriam1066]

Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Primary what hot America ahead of the rest of the world after WW2 was superior industrial power. Russia was doing OK historically when pikemen and muskets were still relevant (as Throndor points out), but it wasn't until Stalin industrialized the country that we fell into what as referred to as a "Bi-Polar" international order.

Before that, Russia was mostly known for humiliating defeats around the WW1 era (no industrialization, a "sleeping giant"). Germany developed ahead not by copying the Anglo model (England/United States), but by authoritarian collectivism.

As far as I know America -- so far -- has had the edge on advanced industrial technology. They did a good job on capitalizing on their lead from WW2. The problem is that China might actually be better at producing hackers and "cybersecurity". IDK -- I just hear a lot about cyber security and Chinese/Russian hackers. It seems like they may have more per capita.

There was nothing anti-American per se in my post. I was just pointing out that we should be able to stop posturing and flag waving for 5 minutes to acknowledge authoritarian collectivism has its merits. Many of the posters hear are spouting a line of propaganda spread throughout this country to prevent well-born people from being taxed. it was invented by those people for those people.

And what exactly are we trying to do with all this power we keep accumulating/defending? From what I can tell, we want to allow a privileged few to "transcendend" humanity with genetic modifications, life extension and cyber implants. And rest of us are used as fodder for that goal. Maybe a little bit of collective organizing is a good idea before this becomes some kind of dystopia post-apocalyptic poverty zones with a few armored pleasure domes.

And all that "lifting people out of poverty" shit is mostly just accounting tricks to make philanthropists feel better about their shitty money-grubbing behavior. Yea lets count a McDonald's worker that barely feed themselves a "not poor" and feel good about ourselves...many of those motherfuckers were happier subsistence farming.

Nah buddy, Africa and China owe 100% of their prosperity to the world trade organization

Hope that helps. Wave an American flag and have American Christian kids dude it’s very simple what part you should be playing and what needs to be done

[America]

Originally Posted by Thorondor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're assuming they ONLY industrialized, and did so at athe rate that they did, because of socialism. Where is your proof that Tsar Nicholas and his would-be successors were anti-industrialization? How can you say, that Russia's industrialization would not have happened anyways. For all intents and purposes, history has proven Russia to be fairly competent, and contemporarily "current" in terms of world power, regardless of what sociopolitical system of rule that they operate under, so how can you claim "socialism" as causual?

Russia has always been a warlord state under a strongman's throne. "Socialism" or no, this is an unbroken sequence. Socialism didn't do it. But revolution that granted the autocrat orders of magnitude greater concentration of power may well have made the diff between getting steamrolled by better-looking Germans and saving freedom in the west, creating the beautiful, utopian, culturally diverse world we know & love today. I therefore posit that socialism & revolution were a dandy thing in Russia. Godbless

[Thorondor]

Originally Posted by America [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Russia has always been a warlord state under a strongman's throne. "Socialism" or no, this is an unbroken sequence.

Exactly. Which is why I'm saying that claiming Socialism as causal to their success is ridiculous. If "Socialism", in and of itself, begets success, then why are so many of the countries that adopted it still third-world shitholes?

[America]

Originally Posted by Thorondor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Exactly. Which is why I'm saying that claiming Socialism as causal to their success is ridiculous. If "Socialism", in and of itself, begets success, then why are so many of the countries that adopted it still third-world shitholes?

ohhhh

[Thorondor]

Originally Posted by America [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ohhhh

Dipshit literally said, Russia wasnt shit before Socialism, despite history positting them as the lynchpin that literally thwarted both of the significant military movements preceding ww2 when the rest of the "western world" was essentially defeated.

Its revisionist pro-communist drivel. Plain and simp