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  #31  
Old 11-22-2019, 12:09 AM
Tecmos Deception Tecmos Deception is offline
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Originally Posted by Zill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
If EQ PvP made for a better community, more than 20 people would play Red at any given time.

How is that not painfully obvious?
I guess only 20 people want that better community. Everyone else is bickering and KSing and hogging camps on the PVE servers and petitionquesting and faulty bug reporting shit to try to get their way [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
  #32  
Old 11-22-2019, 09:20 AM
Dirkdaring Dirkdaring is offline
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Yea I have seen it a few times, people camping mobs way below their group level, I'm not sure if they just dont know where to go, or when to move on to a new better location, or are just asshats.

Like i zoned into High hold keep to use the bank, the goblins in HHK range from 22 ish for the lookout room, and main first room, then between 28 and 34 for the warrior room, and the raider room.

There was 1 group set up at the bottom of the steps , at the first room . they were all lvl 33 to 35 , and were pulling all the goblins, in the zone , the 3 from lookout, and the 5 from main room which are all around 22 lvl , so 10 lvls lower than they are .

they could have set up in the warrior room, and pulled the warrior room, and the raider room, and let a group of low to mid 20s camp the lookout, and main room, instead of claiming all the mobs, but only getting exp for half of them.
  #33  
Old 11-22-2019, 10:01 AM
Ossigor Ossigor is offline
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Yeah, I saw a level 40 druid looking for group in Unrest the other day. I think the ZEMs just make it worth it, plus it's less risk when you're grouped with randos, and tanks don't have great gear for tanking white/yellow cons.

Group exp is pretty bad. I'm a damn warrior and I've found it more pleasant lately to solo (slowly) and then afk and do side hobbies or whatever while I regen.
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  #34  
Old 11-22-2019, 01:32 PM
bum3 bum3 is offline
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Originally Posted by Cuktus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Impeding xp gains and killing green, I dont think those are the same thing. Live rules and p99 rules are different. I looked in the PNP and I cant find any mention that mobs are required to grant xp to be claimed as part of a camp. I could very well be wrong here.
It doesn't specify. But that doesn't mean it's not the "right thing to do". Number 10 says you must not disrupt the normal playability of a zone or area. My interpretation, which includes guide guidelines from live circa 2000, that "normal playability" of a zone or area is for the purpose of gaining experience for character advancement. Raid zones/mobs are for gaining of high end items. The next part in bold "-Monopolizing most or all of the kills in an area." Which unless the person killing greens is only taking the named.. they are killing most of the mobs in the area.. because they can. If you want to follow the camp rules for dungeons.. then you can only take the room you claim and if there is a door or bend, what is on other side isn't yours to claim. Out door camps are a single spawn point.

Simple way I look at it is... don't be a prick. If you are trying to get certain items. Tell the group, hey, if you don't mind giving me the bone chips, you can have these mobs for exp. You'll find many people will be happy for arrangements like that. And that's what guides mean by players compromise before petitioning.

An example is in Crushbone other night. My group setup at Iron Orc and there was a group at tents. I contacted that group and said.. please leave us the cents and you can have our legions. Even though we could kill the red legions with a lvl 6-8 group, it made us have long downtimes and cents didn't give them exp anyway. They were more than happy to make this arrangement.
  #35  
Old 11-22-2019, 01:41 PM
Grakken Grakken is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirkdaring [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Yea I have seen it a few times, people camping mobs way below their group level, I'm not sure if they just dont know where to go, or when to move on to a new better location, or are just asshats.

Like i zoned into High hold keep to use the bank, the goblins in HHK range from 22 ish for the lookout room, and main first room, then between 28 and 34 for the warrior room, and the raider room.

There was 1 group set up at the bottom of the steps , at the first room . they were all lvl 33 to 35 , and were pulling all the goblins, in the zone , the 3 from lookout, and the 5 from main room which are all around 22 lvl , so 10 lvls lower than they are .

they could have set up in the warrior room, and pulled the warrior room, and the raider room, and let a group of low to mid 20s camp the lookout, and main room, instead of claiming all the mobs, but only getting exp for half of them.

The barely giving XP mobs in high ZEM zones are the best XP/per hour. The time (and resources) to kill an even con versus the time to kill a Light Blue con, Light blue wins all day. The light blue to barely still dblue mobs in High ZeM zones killed en masse #bestxp.
  #36  
Old 11-22-2019, 02:14 PM
Cuktus Cuktus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bum3 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
It doesn't specify. But that doesn't mean it's not the "right thing to do". Number 10 says you must not disrupt the normal playability of a zone or area. My interpretation, which includes guide guidelines from live circa 2000, that "normal playability" of a zone or area is for the purpose of gaining experience for character advancement. Raid zones/mobs are for gaining of high end items. The next part in bold "-Monopolizing most or all of the kills in an area." Which unless the person killing greens is only taking the named.. they are killing most of the mobs in the area.. because they can. If you want to follow the camp rules for dungeons.. then you can only take the room you claim and if there is a door or bend, what is on other side isn't yours to claim. Out door camps are a single spawn point.

Simple way I look at it is... don't be a prick. If you are trying to get certain items. Tell the group, hey, if you don't mind giving me the bone chips, you can have these mobs for exp. You'll find many people will be happy for arrangements like that. And that's what guides mean by players compromise before petitioning.

An example is in Crushbone other night. My group setup at Iron Orc and there was a group at tents. I contacted that group and said.. please leave us the cents and you can have our legions. Even though we could kill the red legions with a lvl 6-8 group, it made us have long downtimes and cents didn't give them exp anyway. They were more than happy to make this arrangement.
I completely agree with you, "Don't be a prick". Absolutely. Your example is great, btw. Trading less effective mobs for more effective mobs just makes sense. Reds slow you down, while the other group had some crappy xp granting greens to trade for them. This has that wonderful classic community feel we all love.

I brought up greens and camps and granting xp in my last post on this thread, I regret that. I don't want to rules lawyer issues like this. We, the players, have added... not rules, per say, more like social norms, that are not listed anywhere. For example, the one mob camp in outdoor zones. We, the players, pretty much except that this isn't a real thing. For example, Millers in Qhills or Treants in SK. Guards outside of arena. The rule is there, no doubt, and if a guide/GM shows up and says, give it up, I will do so, no questions asked. But another player /petitioning for that to happen, well, like you say, don't be a prick.

To that end, here is my question: If I am soloing in Befallen for a few hour and have to clear green spawns to get those tasty low blue mobs I actually want, should I have to give up the camp for other players who can xp off both? Morally, not rules lawyery. To add some context, lets say giving up 1/2 of the spawns would making staying in location completely not worth the time for either party. Its an all or nothing kind of deal. Also, lets say, the party does not want to just clear the greens. They are completely able to hold down everything I have, regardless if they all spawn high. Who is the prick?
  #37  
Old 11-22-2019, 03:50 PM
bum3 bum3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuktus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
To that end, here is my question: If I am soloing in Befallen for a few hour and have to clear green spawns to get those tasty low blue mobs I actually want, should I have to give up the camp for other players who can xp off both? Morally, not rules lawyery. To add some context, lets say giving up 1/2 of the spawns would making staying in location completely not worth the time for either party. Its an all or nothing kind of deal. Also, lets say, the party does not want to just clear the greens. They are completely able to hold down everything I have, regardless if they all spawn high. Who is the prick?
Have the discussion with them. This is a social game designed around grouping. Experience penalties for classes that can solo and group bonuses to encourage grouping. I'd say that in your scenario the higher farmer is more of the prick (my opinion of course). You are already only getting half the mobs. But you expect them to get none just in case you will get a chance at a little more than half the spawns. If you are getting exp off every single mob then it's a moot point because that wasn't the case when I gave up the area I was killing. I would also say you are too high for the area you are in and need to move to a level appropriate area. It's up to you on how you handle it. And up to the group to /ignore you and add you to do not group list for the future. It might never effect you. But I have seen people excluded not only from future groups but from raids or guilds because they were on a few peoples list. Sure you can do the same. But 6 vs 1 isn't good odds to future prospects. And people making these lists are more common then you think.
  #38  
Old 11-22-2019, 03:58 PM
jacob54311 jacob54311 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bum3 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Experience penalties for classes that can solo
Pretty sure that can't be the rationale for the hybrid xp penalty. If it were, druids, chanters, necros would have the biggest penalties in the game.
  #39  
Old 11-22-2019, 04:22 PM
bum3 bum3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacob54311 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Pretty sure that can't be the rationale for the hybrid xp penalty. If it were, druids, chanters, necros would have the biggest penalties in the game.
The exp penalty is because hybrids are more powerful than non-hybrids. Warriors and rogues get exp bonuses but neither is half as effective at soloing. Caster have a 10% penalty. And you have to think of the classic ideology. Chanters didn't solo much. They were a CC group class. Charm was meant as a short term CC. Also, back then pets ate experience solo and even at a small percentage in groups(or at least was intended to). So while they could solo, they got much less per mob. You can get a lot about what they intended by reading the original class descriptions. They really emphasized grouping but made notes on a couple classes about being able to solo.
  #40  
Old 11-22-2019, 04:25 PM
jacob54311 jacob54311 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bum3 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
The exp penalty is because hybrids are more powerful than non-hybrids.
More powerful? I don't know about that. Hybrid melees are better than non hybrids at soloing generally, but even within the hybrids, some are much better at it than others.

I'm assuming you left out casters with your "more powerful" comment.
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