Someone Translate this wall of text from Omni

[Hotel]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Loramin/Yendor, you guys should just go play on TAKP. There are GM enforced rotations and you can do Luclin, which actually has a few more interesting raids than tank & spank Velious. Boxing isn't even mandatory. Having been a champion of rotations in the past, I can vouch that they are Boring.

The truth is you are living in the golden age of Project 1999 raiding! You don't have to track every raid target for 96 hours at a time, but merely wait for bi-monthly repop! Literally all you would have to do is take the Aegis alliance to north during a repop and start crawling in. Raid rules do not allow the zone pull guilds to train you. You would get Vulak easily as long as you had part of your guild on each side of the lava pit.

But you refuse to do this, because you don't want to put even the smallest amount effort in. Instead you are following your r-selected evolutionary strategy of status signaling and manipulation. And you are getting told to fuck off. Newsflash: it's only going to get worse. We normal people have had enough insufferable tools like you destroying the country. And your epigenetics are simply not tuned for the imminent (more) k-selected future. If you toughen up a bit, your life from here will be one failure after another.

[Baylan295]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Loramin/Yendor, you guys should just go play on TAKP. There are GM enforced rotations and you can do Luclin, which actually has a few more interesting raids than tank & spank Velious. Boxing isn't even mandatory. Having been a champion of rotations in the past, I can vouch that they are Boring.

The truth is you are living in the golden age of Project 1999 raiding! You don't have to track every raid target for 96 hours at a time, but merely wait for bi-monthly repop! Literally all you would have to do is take the Aegis alliance to north during a repop and start crawling in. Raid rules do not allow the zone pull guilds to train you. You would get Vulak easily as long as you had part of your guild on each side of the lava pit.

But you refuse to do this, because you don't want to put even the smallest amount effort in. Instead you are following your r-selected evolutionary strategy of status signaling and manipulation. And you are getting told to fuck off. Newsflash: it's only going to get worse. We normal people have had enough insufferable tools like you destroying the country. And your epigenetics are simply not tuned for the imminent (more) k-selected future. If you toughen up a bit, your life from here will be one failure after another.

One guild was actually told to get out of ToV by Sirken when they were doing just this.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Maschenny [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Loramin do you have evidence of rotations being a server rule in Velious? I was on Fennin Ro, one of the largest servers, and there was nothing like a ToV rotation on that server.

Ok, first off "in Velious" is an incredibly loaded term. Velious on live lasted almost exactly a year (it was released in December 2000, and Luclin was released in December 2001). Here, even if you completely ignore the fact that everyone was gearing up in Kunark gear for seven years prior, Velious itself has still lasted more than three times as long as Velious ever did on live (and counting).

But second, even going by the most literal definition of "in Velious", yes. This is far from the first time we've (we as in the forum collectively) had this discussion, and in previous discussions people chimed in with stories of rotations in that era. I'm too lazy to go find said discussions, so I don't know what servers exactly, but the conversation exists and can be found with a bit of Googling. As has already been noted my server, Bristlebane, absolutely had them, but they weren't introduced until later (Luclin/PoP) ... but even so, if you compare P99 to Bristlebane they'd already be rotating by now.

Now, turnabout is fair play: do you have evidence from live for any of the P99 "competition" mechanisms besides FTE itself? Even FTE messages never existed on live, because live (despite all this talk about how stiff competition was on it) never had anywhere close to the number of FTE fights P99 has.

[Mead]

So rotations on your server weren't in the classic era

Got it

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Nexii [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It also presupposes that a GM enforced rotation would somehow be less work for the staff. It'd be way more work to hammer out a rotation week in and week out that'd please all guilds than to enforce the current state of affairs. And that's why it remains so.

That's why the staff almost released (well, technically they did, and then rolled back) a rotation?

As I mentioned before, a rotation absolutely could be less work, even if the staff didn't enlist the players ... but IMHO the smart thing to do would be setup systems that force the players to do the enforcement (eg. whoever has HoT this week has to observe new guilds trying to beat the gatekeeper mob so they can join the rotation).

[Maschenny]

Competition just happens when multiple people or groups want the same target. Why would i need to find evidence of it?

Also, i don't consider what you posted to be evidence. Some hearsay from another thread?

[Ripqozko]

Loramin is the AoC of p99

[Hotel]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Loramin is the AoC of p99

He's so deluded that he may actually take that as a compliment

[enesis]

Aegis does do NTOV crawls and folks have floated the idea about crawling in during a repop for some of the "lesser" dragons. Unfortunately, it will probably never happen because of the incredible amount of salt that would instantly flow from the pull-to-entrance guilds if we were in their way. And then we'd get trained. Remember when BG setup at the WToV entrance? Go read those threads if you were being serious in your suggestion. Our officers/members know that drama is the likely result of setting up and crawling during a repop and most do not want to deal with the whining about it. Most of my interactions with the big raiding guilds outside NToV suggest the same. The least appealing thing about NToV to me is the inevitable rule lawyering that it entails; if I had to identify what is keeping Aegis out of NToV, I’d point to the people who frequent it.

In addition to avoiding drama because guilds cannot play nice, the best part about a rotation would be that it allows for actual dungeon crawls. The fact that an NTOV crawl has happened once during the last two years (or maybe the history of the server?) shows that a crawl style of raiding is not a practical option in the coth + pull-to-entrance raid environment. Don’t you guys like a little foreplay?! Or maybe that’s not a concept you are familiar with (ouch).

P.S., rotation or not, the bigger guilds will still go at other targets full bore. See the recent 300+ people fear repops or the past few Sundays where AM has socked sev with us for the entire window. The same guilds are are at pretty much every Sev/CT/Golem/Kozzalym repop as well. AM kills gore within minutes of it spawning in the middle of the night. It's completely disingenuous to suggest that competition for other targets would somehow "get worse" if NToV was rotated. It is a totally empty threat. So in that regard, who cares?

[Hotel]

Originally Posted by enesis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Aegis does do NTOV crawls and folks have floated the idea about crawling in during a repop for some of the "lesser" dragons. Unfortunately, it will probably never happen because of the incredible amount of salt that would instantly flow from the pull-to-entrance guilds if we were in their way. And then we'd get trained. Remember when BG setup at the WToV entrance? Go read those threads if you were being serious in your suggestion. Our officers/members know that drama is the likely result of setting up and crawling during a repop and most do not want to deal with the whining about it. Most of my interactions with the big raiding guilds outside NToV suggest the same. The least appealing thing about NToV to me is the inevitable rule lawyering that it entails; if I had to identify what is keeping Aegis out of NToV, I’d point to the people who frequent it.

In addition to avoiding drama because guilds cannot play nice, the best part about a rotation would be that it allows for actual dungeon crawls. The fact that an NTOV crawl has happened once during the last two years (or maybe the history of the server?) shows that a crawl style of raiding is not a practical option in the coth + pull-to-entrance raid environment. Don’t you guys like a little foreplay?! Or maybe that’s not a concept you are familiar with (ouch).

P.S., rotation or not, the bigger guilds will still go at other targets full bore. See the recent 300+ people fear repops or the past few Sundays where AM has socked sev with us for the entire window. The same guilds are are at pretty much every Sev/CT/Golem/Kozzalym repop as well. AM kills gore within minutes of it spawning in the middle of the night. It's completely disingenuous to suggest that competition for other targets would somehow "get worse" if NToV was rotated. It is a totally empty threat. So in that regard, who cares?

mad cuz bad