Miscellaneous: P99 should have a +Mana cap and revised Base Mana Formula

[Rygar]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nice stuff Jaxon.

I believe you get 12 mana per int/wis at 60. So it seems that a completely classic max would be: 200 * 12 + 55 + 1388 = 3843 mana. Ouch.

Where is that formula coming from? My math was coming out different on the base. Cutting out 600 - 800 mana from someone's pool would be pretty nuts and game changing.

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nice stuff Jaxon.

I believe you get 12 mana per int/wis at 60. So it seems that a completely classic max would be: 200 * 12 + 55 + 1388 = 3843 mana. Ouch.

It's interesting...

Assuming 12 mana per wisdom 1-200 and 1 mana per wisdom 201-205, your calculations are correct.

But the calculations in the quotes earlier are using the Luclin formula. They are using 4164 max total Mana, with 1388 coming from raw Mana gear leaving a WIS/INT Mana value of 2776.

I thought the Luclin era calculations were 12 per Wisdom 1-200 and 6 Mana per 201-255. This gives you a value of 2730 mana, off by 46 mana? To get a 2776 value you'd need the post 200-wisdom mana value to be about 6.8 per.

Also interesting, the Al'Kabor client had the WIS/INT Mana value of a level 60 at 2775. Which we can attribute to some rounding error somewhere. But how we get to the value is what confuses me.

Perhaps the actual Luclin calculation is 12.5mana/wisdom 0-200 and 5 mana/wisdom 201-255. This lands you at 2775 exactly.

[Rygar]

You know, re-reading this...

Since 4164 divided evenly into 3, AND the resulting divisor was '1388' I concluded that not only was the 4164 figure accurate, but the 'cap' was actually a function of your total mana pool, basically, 50% of your mana pool is the cap on +mana items. You say this 'limit' was known for a long time, well, not by the general public. I knew there was a cap on +mana under level 20 or so, but I had never heard of any limitation above lvl 20.

It seems to me that this won't affect only end-gamers, but the cap being a percentage of your mana pool will affect twinking. This could also have big impacts on Red where people de-level to grief.

This probably complicates things for the dev to incorporate a 50% of your pool cap if they can't get the pool to scale properly.

I am curious too Daldaen if HP had an affect like this (relative cap to total HP). Wonder if there are any posts about people not seeing expected gains from equipping +55 HP rings at level 1? Too tired to start that search.

[Daldaen]

Because HP was actually displayed in the UI during classic I'm sure that would've been mentioned somewhere. Especially if it is a function of your base and level dependent.

The Mana evidence has be convinced it was capped but I'd need to see a lot more for HP because everyone could see their HP value exactly.

[Raev]

The +mana cap being 50% of the int/wis total seems extremely logical. But this makes it even worse for P99ers if we are using the classic 12/1. That would give us ((12 * 200) + 55) * 5 = 1228 mana in +items and 3682 max in classic. http://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]oabarrelroll by my math has +1070 mana (and no Garizcor earring), so you'd only need maybe 4 raid loots to hit the cap.

Also I have to say Rygar has taken the bug troll to an epic level.

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The +mana cap being 50% of the int/wis total seems extremely logical. But this makes it even worse for P99ers if we are using the classic 12/1. That would give us ((12 * 200) + 55) * 5 = 1228 mana in +items and 3682 max in classic. http://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]oabarrelroll by my math has +1070 mana (and no Garizcor earring), so you'd only need maybe 4 raid loots to hit the cap.

Also I have to say Rygar has taken the bug troll to an epic level.

But apparently, shits classic...

Man Luclin starting to look real good right now. Velious was a dumpsterfire with Mana caps and awful itemization.

[Rygar]

So you're saying folks should have been happy I said 4,200 originally..?

In the 201+ WIS/INT thread I just posted this link:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!ms...ames.everquest

12/17/2001 when new formulas were posted:

<je...@spam.sux.pobox.com> wrote:
Hi, Casters Realm has put up two new mana calculators (wis and int).
Anyone have any idea what the new formulas are? I haven't noticed any real changes in any of my characters' mana pools, so was wondering just what has changed? I know they were proposing that int/wis could go over 200 now with more than minimal benefit (more than one mana per wis/int point over 200) but am not certain they implemented that. Any information and the current formulas would be appreciated.
>
I haven't tested it, but I've heard it's the same as it was (10 per point at
level 50) plus 7 per point above 200 int/wis. I believe the 10 per goes up
to 12 or 13 per at level 60, but not sure what it actually increases to.

seems right i can get almost 2 extra chloroblasts of with 251 mana so 7
points per after 200 seems right

Final quote mentions with '251 mana' but I think they mean 251 WIS and they are gaining nearly an extra 300 mana (Chloroplast looks to cost 175 mana). 251 - 200 = 51 * 7 = +357 mana - 51 mana from old 201+ formula = +306 mana after change (almost 2 extra chloroblasts).

This seems to imply the mana calculation didn't just round and keep mana pools the same, but increased mana pools. What they were before I guess is something that needs to be determined.

If mana pools are really supposed to be this low... holy crap. Even solo artist challenges are going to get rough, nevermind grouping, low man encounters, long fights like AoW...

I may have made many enemies this day.

[Bellringer]

Confused of why the 4164 number is being overlooked. It appears your assumptions of classic mana per wis/int above and/or below 200 are flawed.

[smitho1984]

Originally Posted by Rygar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I may have made many enemies this day.

I will eat your first born.

[Rygar]

Originally Posted by Bellringer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Confused of why the 4164 number is being overlooked. It appears your assumptions of classic mana per wis/int above and/or below 200 are flawed.

I believe they are saying the 4,164 was calculated and tested during Luclin which actually used a formula that increased your mana pool. If using the supposed velious calculation and maintaining that mana cap on items was a 50% cap of your wis/int, then your pool would be lower as well as the cap on items.

Haven't looked into how rock solid that is, or if something is amiss.