#91
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As I said before, you can always switch between taunt spam and targeted taunting as needed due to it's 6 second cooldown. In a group where everybody is playing correctly, agro loss is fairly rare to begin with. If you are at the point where the Enchanter is grabbing agro every 30 seconds, you need to figure out why that is happening, instead of relying on taunt to fix the problem. I think that might be the disconnect here. People don't seem to realize that you shouldn't normally be in a situation where you are using taunt often in a targeted situation. That is yet another reason why taunt spam generally isn't going to have a large opportunity cost. Quote:
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__________________
Shamwowi Wipesalot (60 SHM) | Bazgek Bonebreaker (60 SK) | Sznake Pliszken (52 MNK) | Laanfear (30 ENC)
Do you have questions about Shaman races? Read my guide: https://wiki.project1999.com/Shamwow...man_Race_Guide Want to see Shaman videos? Check out my youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFU...zEFJVBIH3-jUog | |||||
Last edited by DeathsSilkyMist; 11-27-2023 at 12:38 PM..
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#92
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But, I also agree with you in that if you like using it--effectiveness be damned--you aren't hurting anyone and if it's more fun that way, go right on ahead. I'm not going to attack someone for doing it different than I do when results demonstrate we both will get the job done. The game allows for different ways of doing things, which I regard as a strength not a weakness. | |||
Last edited by Danth; 11-27-2023 at 12:52 PM..
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#93
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I don't think you should discount the 8.33% passive chance, however. Think about it this way. People spend months raiding to get +50 HP in a slot, which probably equates to less than a 1% increased chance of survival. Instead of spending months raiding, you can just macro a skill you get for free onto another skill you are pressing anyway, and get a free 8.33% passive chance to jump to the top of the hate list. I am not saying you are doing this, but I think people don't seem to understand that they are doing a lot of things in this game that only provide small bonuses. I find it strange that they are willing to argue over small bonus A (taunt spam, for example), while unanimously agreeing over small bonus B (something like +50 HP in a slot).
__________________
Shamwowi Wipesalot (60 SHM) | Bazgek Bonebreaker (60 SK) | Sznake Pliszken (52 MNK) | Laanfear (30 ENC)
Do you have questions about Shaman races? Read my guide: https://wiki.project1999.com/Shamwow...man_Race_Guide Want to see Shaman videos? Check out my youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFU...zEFJVBIH3-jUog | |||
#94
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Hah, yeah, I tend to be unenthusiastic about +1 here, +2 there. EQ tends to be a "big numbers" game where you need quite a bit of something before you notice good effect. That's why I never upgraded a couple of my Thurgadin-quality armor items to Skyshrine--for the huge cost involved, it wasn't going to let me do anything I can't already do, anyway.
My bain does not compute the ~8% chance because I see it as a zero per cent chance--because I'm not really ever losing aggro to begin with, taunt or no taunt. It's a case where I'm interpreting the setup through the lens of how I play. Once in awhile when it doesn't matter I might go lazy-mode and let something flip onto the shaman once in awhile but only when nobody involved cares. I can accept that other folks may play a bit differently, and as long as they're still getting the job done--good enough. | ||
#95
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Your strategy is: spam taunt whenever it comes off cooldown; if you ever lose aggro, cast an aggro spell, right? The other strategy is: don't spam taunt; if you ever lose aggro, taunt and then cast an aggro spell, right? Given that you're in the scenario where aggro flips, you calculate an 8.3% chance to flip it back before an aggro spell lands. With the second strategy, in that same scenario, what's the chance to flip it back before an aggro spell lands? | |||
#96
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Realistically speaking spamming taunt has a higher percent chance of success than 8.33% simply due to removing reaction time from the equation. Conversely, waiting to use taunt has a lower percent chance of success due to factoring in reaction time. How much closer do the two percentages move to the middle of 8.33% and 50%? It is dependent on the player who is tanking, as each person has a different internet connection, keyboard, mouse, monitor, and reaction time. This is why agro spells are much better. They don't have an instant fail mechanic if the mob runs out of melee range, they don't heavily rely on reaction time, and they have a much higher chance of applying agro. Taunt has a 6 second cooldown and isn't reliable, so you cannot "waste it". Spam it or save it, both methods are viable. The cooldown is also fast enough to where you can switch your tactics as needed by the group at any moment. There is no realistic scenario in which a group will wipe because an SK (who has agro spells) didn't taunt due to 2 seconds remaining on their taunt cooldown, regardless of the reason why taunt is on cooldown. You are guaranteed to get nothing from taunt if you never use it, so you might as well use it and get something!
__________________
Shamwowi Wipesalot (60 SHM) | Bazgek Bonebreaker (60 SK) | Sznake Pliszken (52 MNK) | Laanfear (30 ENC)
Do you have questions about Shaman races? Read my guide: https://wiki.project1999.com/Shamwow...man_Race_Guide Want to see Shaman videos? Check out my youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFU...zEFJVBIH3-jUog | |||
Last edited by DeathsSilkyMist; 11-27-2023 at 08:45 PM..
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#97
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I'd guess between a quarter second and a half second for human reaction time, plus about 50-150 ms for internet latency. Does that sound reasonable? I just took a reaction-time test, and got between 0.28 and 0.32 seconds: https://faculty.washington.edu/chudl.../redgreen.html | ||||
#98
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__________________
Shamwowi Wipesalot (60 SHM) | Bazgek Bonebreaker (60 SK) | Sznake Pliszken (52 MNK) | Laanfear (30 ENC)
Do you have questions about Shaman races? Read my guide: https://wiki.project1999.com/Shamwow...man_Race_Guide Want to see Shaman videos? Check out my youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFU...zEFJVBIH3-jUog | |||
#99
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I'm not trying to make a point. I'm trying to Do Science. Part of the process is to come up with unbiased estimates/measurements about the context of the system of whatever you are modelling. I suppose my ulterior motive is that I want you to accept that my estimates are reasonable before doing the calculations, as I hope that will make it more likely that you're willing to accept the results, whatever they may be. So far we've agreed upon a provisional value for reflex time of 0.5 second. How about the time before a fleeing mob is out of taunt range? Is a second a reasonable value for that? A tenth of a second? I really have no idea. | |||
#100
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I am not really sure what you are after here. If you read my posts, I haven't been saying that spamming taunt is statistically better than saving taunt for the right moment. Everybody in this thread (including myself) agrees that timing a taunt correctly has a higher chance of success. I have been countering the point that spamming taunt does nothing, or has a negative effect. Mathematically this is 100% incorrect. You have at least an 8.33% chance of succeeding if you spam taunt. If you don't use taunt because you are afraid of "wasting it", you have a zero percent chance of success. Since taunt has a 6 second cooldown, your opportunity cost of switching tactics in the middle of the fight is small. This is especially true since an experienced Knight will never rely on taunt. It is a nice to have, not a vital tool.
__________________
Shamwowi Wipesalot (60 SHM) | Bazgek Bonebreaker (60 SK) | Sznake Pliszken (52 MNK) | Laanfear (30 ENC)
Do you have questions about Shaman races? Read my guide: https://wiki.project1999.com/Shamwow...man_Race_Guide Want to see Shaman videos? Check out my youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFU...zEFJVBIH3-jUog | |||
Last edited by DeathsSilkyMist; 11-27-2023 at 09:44 PM..
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