Twink Necro items question

[commongood]

Also, your math might be sound (not factoring for the stack vs 1 chip thing) but I'd never look at it like that. There have been plenty of times where I've been doing something in a dungeon and figured out too late that I've been clumsy and not stocked up on chips. My pet dies, I go to summon a new one and... doh. In that case it's worth a lot to me to be able to just summon a few chips on the fly and keep going rather than having to gate out get port to WC etc etc

[Machone]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Boneshear is interesting. We have low dexterity so you’re looking at around 1 bone chip per minute while meleeing (ie not medding and also not sitting which results in no hp regen). For a 60 iksar necro you effectively give up 200 mana and 60 hp per bone chip. It goes for stupidly a stupidly high price to boot.

25k buys you 2.5k stacks of bone chips .... 50,000 bone chips. Assuming a necro has 100 or less dex and uses Boneshear exclusively for the proc it’ll take you around 50,000 minutes (833 hours; nearly 35 days) of meleeing just to break even on the investment. 50,000 minutes meleeing put another way (at least as a 60 iksar) is giving up 10,000,000 mana in lost meditation and 3,000,000 hp in lost sitting regen.

Assuming you’re just root rotting 10,000,000 mana at a 5dmg per mana averaged with higher level mobs? 50,000,000 points of killing power. If you simply pretend each mob you kill has a whopping 8,000 hp? Well that’s 6250 level 50 mobs (187,500 xp per) to the tune of 1,171,875,000 xp. 1.17 billion in lost xp just from the mana you lost out while meditating.

An iksar necro needs only 673 million to go from 1 to capped 60 and will never use 50k bone chips. In the time it takes you to make up the 498 million zip difference you could sac a level 59 121 times. Sold at 200 a pop thats 24.3k ... all for cheap bone chips you don’t need.

Neat item but the proc is a neat parlor trick at best. It’s not worth the price. If I had one I’d sell it to some poor sucker who realized it’s garbage other than the stats.

Thanks for breaking that down! I was actually looking at this item- off the list nowwwe

[Troxx]

Ooo if it’s a full stack that dramatically changes the convenience level. If I had a cast spell option for 200 mana and 60 hp for a full stack I’d use that spell often.

But still ... 25k for the ability to summon cheap chips is a rip-off. The chips themselves drop in places we usually hunt. I still have about 10 stacks of chips in my bank from leveling in kurns. You’ve gotta be exceptionally lazy or negligent to run out in the first place. If it does happen, I can’t imaging it happening more than a small handful of times in your time playing necro (unless lazy/negligent).

Is that worth 25k?

[Daud]

Here's the thing about the zheart, the epic is meaningless for what, the first 46 levels at least? The lower levels are were the heart gives the biggest percentage increase are 1-49 anyways. Iksar regen doesn't really take off until 49+, 1-20 you're still only 4 sitting 2 standing, and 21 to 49 is 6 sitting 2 standing. After 34 and Call of Bones until 49/Lich, you halve CoB's HP drain and before that with Allure I think you'll actually gain HP. After 49 lich and 51+/55+ regens, it's still 25-50% less HP drain depending on the spell/level/position.

That isn't anything to sneeze at in the long term, lifetaps are not exactly the most efficient DPS source out there and anything you can do to spend less mana on those, the better; especially with some ridiculous twinked HP pool which the zheart, again, lets you take better advantage of. It doesn't look very "wow" if you look at it on a per fight basis, but we're talking at least what, weeks, if not months of leveling? It adds up. Not to mention the reality of it's utility to speed things up when you're laying around after something doesn't go perfectly. Meanwhile, that slimeblood in the bank does absolutely nothing.

And lets not forget, at 350k, you can get the heart, slimeblood, HP jewelry, pre-Nerf CoS, OiV, Heiro, jboots, and still have plenty left over to fill out the rest of your slots with decent gear and maybe even a couple tink bags. If your entire budget was gonna go to the zheart, my tune would change. But I don't even know why this is presented as an "this or that" at that level of funding.

And at the end of the day, if you don't like it, you can just sell it. The heart's value has stayed fairly strong, there's consistent WTBs and as long as you don't do anything incredibly stupid, you won't lose much, if anything at all.

[commongood]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ooo if it’s a full stack that dramatically changes the convenience level. If I had a cast spell option for 200 mana and 60 hp for a full stack I’d use that spell often.

But still ... 25k for the ability to summon cheap chips is a rip-off. The chips themselves drop in places we usually hunt. I still have about 10 stacks of chips in my bank from leveling in kurns. You’ve gotta be exceptionally lazy or negligent to run out in the first place. If it does happen, I can’t imaging it happening more than a small handful of times in your time playing necro (unless lazy/negligent).

Is that worth 25k?

Calling it a rip-off seems harsh. It’s stupidly rare.

[Troxx]

At 25k it is a rip off. Being rare doesn’t make it 25k useful.

[commongood]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

At 25k it is a rip off. Being rare doesn’t make it 25k useful.

I think you are lacking nuance in your analysis. Rarity is definitely a factor. Ask yourself if an item like, say, Manna Robe is worth 130-150k. Objectively I’d argue that for some paying that much to min/max your mana in certain situations and gain like 10 or so mana per tick when factoring in having to stop and cast wiz epic or vp staff is NOT worth 100k+. But it does something that’s desirable for some and it’s very rare and hard to come by. If Manna Robe dropped off The Crypt Keeper in HS north at uncommon that would obviously instantly drop its price. So to call Boneshear a rip-off at 25k seems wrong in my opinion. Or at least harsh. If you’ve been on the server long enough then sorry but 25k isn’t that much. OP says they have 350k to splash.

Look I’m not saying it will remain at 25k. It may well drop in price. But it’s very, very rare and does something unique and relevant for a very popular class so I wouldn’t be worried it’s vakue will fall off a cliff. Especially if it summons a stack and not singletons [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Raev]

I had a z-heart on my necro for a bit. I would say that 1-48 it's pretty good as even Iksars get only 4 regen per tick sitting and you'll get beat up a decent bit charm soloing. Once you get Bond of Death, it's fairly cheap to heal up. And in a lot of cases the taps, with their -200 mod, are the best nukes you have anyway.

I just don't think it's possible to twink a caster in this era without focus items and non-raid FT and so on in comparison to a fungi melee.

I have used the beads a LOT though, both for healing up and riskless pulls (FD, send eye, FD, send eye, tag remainder).

[enjchanter]

I'm pretty sure it procs just 1 single bone chip

Bone shear is utterly worthless
Pay a newb 100p for 10 stacks

[Crede]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just don't think it's possible to twink a caster in this era without focus items and non-raid FT and so on in comparison to a fungi melee.

a z heart mage with ds/haste/nuke clicky would be a fair comparison imo.