Shocking leaked image shows spirit of compromise on p99 in A/A's absence!

[Vallanor]

People keep saying the failure of the R System is proof that it will never work, but conveniently forget to mention that the people who blew it up either left the server (BDA) or are in Awakened (Taken).

Nobody knows what would happen this time. There are 3x the mobs now and different people involved. There's no guarantee of failure or success. This past weekend had people sign up as an alliance for all mobs. If they were held to that in the new system, wouldn't that alleviate a lot of the problem the bigger guilds saw with Class R the first time around and make it more likely to succeed?

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If casuals really wanted to affect change, they could simply log in and hold the zone hostage during windows. There's certainly enough of them. A month of no ToV mobs would put some of these neckbeards into epileptic fits.

The numbers out for ToV this weekend were crazy. No defensive warrior tanking required when 6 minutes worth of deft dancing bards available, right?!

[Brut]

Blaming BDA or Taken for the rotation falling apart is pretty naive. It's just human nature. That's why the raidscene inevitably degenerates into a contest of whomever is willing to sock the hardest. People want to maximize the amount of pixels they get, have the best chance to get it, feel like they're the most deserving of it, ergo they go just a wee step further to have the best chance of getting them. Other guilds follow suit. Until it comes to a point where everyone's socking spawns points autofires blazing. Happened tons of times before, would happen again.

There's already, what, 10 entities that would be ToV capable in the casual guild list? CSGs and other alliances wouldn't want to keep 150+ manning scarce rotated mobs for long and would split up to smaller guilds. Ergo even more mouths to feed. The waiting list for rotated mobs would stretch to half a year or so. By summer it'd be the evul BDA/Taken of today that'd break the rotation apart again, since they'd get tired of all the small splinter guilds that appear flocking in stretching the list even further.

It just boils down to classic vs not classic. There's just too many people on this server who are ready and willing to raid for it to work out with 7day respawn mobs. Unclassic solutions are the only way to fix a problem that we didn't have in 2001. That's why the raidscene caters to biggest neckbeards too, since it's the simpliest solution, easiest to monitor, and classic. If the staff wants to change it up, great, but I just roll my eyes reading these "A/A horrible poopsocking bad guys pls add rotations and server is saved"-talks, since we should all know better.

[bktroost]

Originally Posted by Vallanor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People keep saying the failure of the R System is proof that it will never work, but conveniently forget to mention that the people who blew it up either left the server (BDA) or are in Awakened (Taken).

Nobody knows what would happen this time. There are 3x the mobs now and different people involved. There's no guarantee of failure or success. This past weekend had people sign up as an alliance for all mobs. If they were held to that in the new system, wouldn't that alleviate a lot of the problem the bigger guilds saw with Class R the first time around and make it more likely to succeed?

A human hurt me once, therefore, all humans will hurt me. I no longer trust humans. #FalseSyllogisms

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Vallanor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People keep saying the failure of the R System is proof that it will never work, but conveniently forget to mention that the people who blew it up either left the server (BDA) or are in Awakened (Taken).

Nobody knows what would happen this time. There are 3x the mobs now and different people involved. There's no guarantee of failure or success. This past weekend had people sign up as an alliance for all mobs. If they were held to that in the new system, wouldn't that alleviate a lot of the problem the bigger guilds saw with Class R the first time around and make it more likely to succeed?

There's 3x the mobs now, but there's also 3x the players. This happened once years ago when TMO monopolized all of the raid content. They took a two week vacation for shenanigans and the server did the same thing as is going on now, sharing the mobs for 2 weeks (an effort spearheaded by the same BDA no-less). This 10 days is predictive of nothing, but the last 6 years of this server's history is predictive, since history is clearly repeating itself.

BDA left because nothing was changing about how this server is run. Continuing to run it the same way will always yield the same results. You're not going to change human nature, people will always get away with whatever they are allowed to get away with.

[Vallanor]

I'm just spitballing here, but you could even break the rotation into different categories and you can only sign up for one. This could get the up and coming guilds on a faster rotation for easier stuff (something like WToV, KD, Velketor, etc.) the mid-progression guilds into a faster rotation for medium stuff (Yelinak, Dain, Draco, some of NToV?) and the biggest guilds into the larger tier (AoW, harder ToV, stuff like that). You only sign up for one rotation at a time, which keeps people moving through pretty quickly.

I don't know, just a thought. The point is there are so many more mobs now with Velious that things like this are possible and guilds can participate in the tier that makes the most sense based on their current progression.

Edit for above responses: I think the one key that is missing that would prevent history repeating (which I still contend is hardly a certainty) is GM enforcement of whatever is set up. If Azure Guard becomes the new Taken and wants to blow everything up and stomp down the little guys, we'd just be removed from the rotation and put into Class C or whatever it's called this time around. Having experienced a year and a half of that already, I think we'd suck it up and continue with the rotation.

[Ravager]

Without GM intervention on the rotation, it won't work, since there's no incentive to keep the rotation for people willing to suffer hemorrhoids to attain pixels. Back before the R rotation broke up, Sirken pushed for guilds coming to an agreement on the rotation, even acknowledging it himself that it was good for the server, but for whatever reason he did not want to enforce it. So that's that.

[Vallanor]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Without GM intervention on the rotation, it won't work, since there's no incentive to keep the rotation for people willing to suffer hemorrhoids to attain pixels. Back before the R rotation broke up, Sirken pushed for guilds coming to an agreement on the rotation, even acknowledging it himself that it was good for the server, but for whatever reason he did not want to enforce it. So that's that.

Edited my previous post to mention GM enforcement. I agree it's really important.

[Breaken]

Originally Posted by Vallanor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If Azure Guard becomes the new Taken and wants to blow everything up and stomp down the little guys, we'd just be removed from the rotation and put into Class C or whatever it's called this time around.

Pretty sure it was BDA who blew it up. All Taken did was request guilds to sign up together if they raided together, as you have done now with CSG. I find it funny because when we discussed the Ring War rotation, I made it very clear this is still important for any rotation, and CSG agreed, as they don't sign up for 3 slots.

[Vallanor]

Originally Posted by Breaken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pretty sure it was BDA who blew it up. All Taken did was request guilds to sign up together if they raided together, as you have done now with CSG. I find it funny because when we discussed the Ring War rotation, I made it very clear this is still important for any rotation, and CSG agreed, as they don't sign up for 3 slots.

I think that's pretty reasonable honestly. Some of the "kill Gorenaire within one hour no matter when it pops" stuff was a bit much, but signing up as one entity if you end up raiding together anyway makes a lot of sense. I wasn't involved in any of the discussions so I don't know who demanded what, but I'd believe that it was BDA that ruined everything. As I've learned from historically accurate Swish-posting, BDA is just the worst.