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  #11  
Old 03-22-2017, 01:55 PM
kgallowaypa kgallowaypa is offline
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Albeit negligible, Disarm generates a little bit of threat. You could incorporate it into your kick attacks as it is a different ability and timer to use if you want that little sliver of threat with the Aggro weapons as fastboy mentioned. Doesn't hurt anything and it still generates small threat even if the mob in question does not have a weapon wielded.
  #12  
Old 03-22-2017, 03:35 PM
evanderheide evanderheide is offline
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kgallowaypa - your posts have been extraordinarily high quality on this thread. Thank you. I'm definitely going to buy one at this point, and a lot of that has come down to how thoroughly you've described how / what to do with the weapon. If you've got one for sale sometime next week, I'd definitely prefer giving you the business [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]! If not, you made someone 2k. Anywho.

Had a related question about pulling - have you tried / would it work to just "Taunt" mobs on pull rather than risk having a proc go off on melee damage pull? Yes, losing out on the initial whacks sucks, but it means you have 0 potential blind problems.
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Old 03-22-2017, 05:13 PM
kgallowaypa kgallowaypa is offline
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New forum signature! lol no worries.. I actually will be keeping my spine until I can snag an infestation from DN one of these lucky vilefang spawn days.

As for taunt, I would not recommend that because you always want to have it ready if you need to have a chance to snap something off of the cleric/robe class that might have a pop or unexpected mob come to camp. There is no need to have that unloaded if you are running back to camp..if you are really concerned about pulling with a proc going off, just kick the mob or stand right next to it...But that is also not recommended as I will go more into that next. Taunt only works in close proximity anyways, there was no "taunting" from across the room in classic eq, although there must be some distance number to how far it will actually work (I believe within melee distance but I am not 100% on it).

At the end of the day, you ideally want to hit the mob a few swings before its back at camp for this main reason: Building threat. If you just kick the mob and run back, you have a small percentage of threat because kick is not very high damage until stunning kick..even then its not a pulling mechanic. Taunt only puts you at the top of the hate-list anyways so a mob with 0 hate towards you just get aggroed and essentially, makes taunt pulling useless.

But for argument sake. If you only kick the mob and run back to camp, and announce your "INCOMING ASSIST ME!" message, your team is already standing up and prepping to cast their tash/slow/debuff etc. There is no way a kick attack will keep threat on you before it is fully at camp - the mob will run straight to whoever cast on it after the fact. To avoid this, spend an extra 1-2 seconds whacking the mob to at least 96-98 PCT so that by the time it does come back to camp, you have a higher chance of keeping that agro and building from it before the enchanter tashes it right at 99 percent health.
Last edited by kgallowaypa; 03-22-2017 at 05:18 PM..
  #14  
Old 03-23-2017, 05:12 AM
Danth Danth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanderheide [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Had a related question about pulling - have you tried / would it work to just "Taunt" mobs on pull rather than risk having a proc go off on melee damage pull? Yes, losing out on the initial whacks sucks, but it means you have 0 potential blind problems.
You can pull with slam/kick for the same effect. Alternately, pull with a bow and arrow. A couple rounds of white damage aren't going to hold something on you anyway. Been too many times I've seen a Shaman wait till a target is at 60% life or less before slowing and rip aggro anyhow. You're better off asking for root or telling the slower to stand there (don't run around) and wait for you to taunt it off.

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Last edited by Danth; 03-23-2017 at 05:21 AM..
  #15  
Old 03-23-2017, 11:49 AM
evanderheide evanderheide is offline
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Hello all! Thanks for the input.

What you're saying makes sense. I'm sure I'll get the hang of how to balance stuff given the risk of a proc. Overall, I'm stoked to get a whip. My warrior is a troll, so my slam has a nice stunning component, so I think it should generate some solid aggro for my character even if i have to resort to slam pulls for a while.

Kgallo, isn't Vilefang a 24 hour spawn? Regardless, the main reason I've been aiming to grab a whip is that it seems like the loot rights / set up for VF is pretty expensive at 10k a pop. I'm basically thinking the whip will be my main weapon until I start getting into No Drop territory. Are there any other really good aggro weapons that also have solid ratios that are droppable I should be aware of? I'm thinking I'll probably get a Club of Ice Ocean at some point, but we'll see.
  #16  
Old 03-23-2017, 01:01 PM
Troxx Troxx is offline
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Silken whip of ensnaring 14/28 dirt cheap fairly good aggro weapon.

Finding a better tradable weapon with a 1:2 ratio is going to be expensive. You could settle for a slightly better proc but worse ratio, but it's still going to be very expensive and offhand proc rate isn't that great even with 200 dex.

Best realistic weapon combo for non high end raiding is THIS (entropy) and Infestation combined. One proc from either of these weapons should lock the mob on you unless you're grouped with retards. The easy fix for the danger of this proc is to have whoever might possibly get aggro simply stand within melee range ... really not hard.

Paladins have been holding aggro with blind forever and on proc of that weapon is a metric ton more aggro than a single (or 2-3) blind casts.
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  #17  
Old 03-23-2017, 01:34 PM
Naethyn Naethyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Bloodpoint is horrible for aggro. Haste also isn't going to help...the aggro added by the haste isn't going to put you over the top if you have any DPS/Slower in the group.
Bloodpoint is really good aggro, and the healing/damage is a factor.

Haste is easily the most important aggro you can add in this game as a warrior. Procs don't even come close. Aggro is really about position and white damage.

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Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Frostbringer aggro sucks by comparison. It's not a bad weapon mind you but 60 hate from the DD + debuff is not in the same ballpark as 4 poison counters, blind, and debuff.

If you use it - I recommend main hand it.
24 AC debuff is the same aggro as a slow. Frostrbringer is 15 AC debuff and 60 dd which puts it below a real slow. AC debuff is the reason Cracked Claw of Zlandicar is such high aggro.
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  #18  
Old 03-23-2017, 01:52 PM
evanderheide evanderheide is offline
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Yeah I've currently got a Silken Whip in my offhand but it doesn't proc until 50. Good ratio though for cheap, definitely. I appreciate the realistic top end predictions for aggro weapons, that all makes sense.

Bottom line, looking forward to grabbing one of these puppies this weekend / sometime next week. Sounds like its overall worthwhile weapon pick-up that will last me into mid 50's-60 cash grinding camps.

Good to know about that AC debuff Nathyn. I had heard AC debuffs were a strong aggro, sounds like that's very much the case.
  #19  
Old 03-23-2017, 04:00 PM
kgallowaypa kgallowaypa is offline
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10k for the infestation is not bad for the price in the grand scheme of things..but to some it is quite a pretty penny to spend for that extra proc agro when the wrapped entropy is a solid choice for a lot less. Depending on your finances and play-time though, this might be the best combo until you can afford the epic and/or VP drops respectively.
  #20  
Old 03-23-2017, 04:44 PM
Troxx Troxx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naethyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Bloodpoint is really good aggro, and the healing/damage is a factor.

24 AC debuff is the same aggro as a slow. Frostrbringer is 15 AC debuff and 60 dd which puts it below a real slow. AC debuff is the reason Cracked Claw of Zlandicar is such high aggro.
Blood point is NOT good aggro.

15ac debuff with 60dd is not good at all by comparison to the weapon this thread is about.

Frostbringer:
12/22- good ratio
**15ac debuff - decent aggro
**60dd - minor addition

WESS
11/23- modest ratio
**4 poison counters (300 a pop) -HUGE (allcaps) aggro
**Blind - good aggro
**5 Atk debuff - extra bonus

Infestation
9/18 - goodish ratio
**3 poison counters (300 a pop) - Huge aggro
**12dd - meh aggro
**10/tick dot - meh aggro

Bloodpoint
10/21 - modest ratio
**80hp lifetap -minor aggro

Cracked claw of Zlandicar
14/25- quite good ratio
**Debuff (55str/agi +24ac) - Strong aggro

Silken Whip of Ensnaring
14/28 - goodish ratio
**Snare (~300) - Decent aggro

Trochilic's Skean (offhand only)
10/25 - not good ratio
**1 poison counter (300) - decent aggro
**spinatun (~350) decent aggro

-----------

Incapacite aggro is comparable to shaman slow. Zlandicar's claw pairs a good ratio with a good proc. The melee threat generated is less than monk epic fist but is better than many warrior ratios. In short fights it will yield more stable aggro and a proc for most groups will seal the deal regardless. Head to head, however, it will lose handily on long fights to infestation which sports an aggro proc close to 1k hate a pop. The strongest aggro of any weapons listed above is actually this thread's namesake - and it's cheap. Per proc you're looking at 1200 on p99 from the poison counters alone --- oh yeah and there's a blind component too ... that spell paladins use so much and for a good reason. You can estimate that at 1400-1600 threat per proc.

To put that into perspective, the Enraging blow proc found on luclin era Blade of Carnage (gold standard for many raid tanks until SSra procmod swords in Luclin is/was only 700 threat per proc.

WESS beats out willsapper and wavecasher for raw aggro as well.

Don't get me wrong, given the availability of raid weapons I would rather swing a different blade but if the only metric you're measuring is raw average hate production - it's damn hard to beat this weapon. As a lifelong warrior main back in the day (career raid tanking warrior on live luclin through SoF, I'm well aware that the RNG in this era is a fickle mistress. Superior ratio with a "good enough" proc will yield a more even-keeled combat experience, but once the procs roll in, the proc on this weapon and infestation put them in a category way at the top of the aggro tree.

On this server even raiding, it doesn't matter though as main tanks are addicted to blowing hammer charges on incoming and then recharging afterwards. The art of aggro domination and threat control (on the part of the raid in general) is lost on this server ... which really is a shame.
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Last edited by Troxx; 03-23-2017 at 04:47 PM..
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