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  #51  
Old 04-29-2021, 07:53 PM
unsunghero unsunghero is offline
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Originally Posted by Taiku [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
You're gonna basically be a worse mage until you get to like level 25-30 when you can start holding charm reliably, buckle up.
Even being a worse mage as a pet class you are still better than ALL non-twinked melees are those levels

There is something seriously off with pet damage at early levels. Giving them a 2handed weapon pre-level 20 almost breaks the game. I was watching recordings of a ranger leveling up who was around the same level as my enchanter as I leveled from 1-20. My pet did WAYYYY more damage than he was (he was untwinked just using what weapons he could find or quest for). I’m talking like 2x his damage just from the pet alone

There’s a thread on the Blue server forum where some people speculate that pet damage on p99 might be a bit off from how it was in vanilla. I would almost agree but I am not complaining. Of course this drops off significantly around level 25. I remember when I was killing gnolls at splitpaw my hasted pet could only handle 2 blues in a row with me slowing them prior to getting hit to engage the pet before the pet was almost dead. Then I would have to sit there and wait for pet’s health to slowly trickle back up. I was very much in the charming mode prior to that but splitpaw is so ungodly camped that often there wasn’t 2 mobs I could charm. So I had to go back to using the animation, and that’s when I noticed it’s power really dropping off, especially compared to what a charmed mob can do at that level

Apparently animations stay pretty weak until the level 49+ ones based on what I read in that thread on the blue server forum about enchanter pets. Which doesn’t matter really to anyone who mostly charms

Enchanter really seems to hit a power spike at 29 with clarity. I was pretty stoked to recently kill 2 solusek goblins, a solusek priest, and the solusek king all at once at level 35. Let’s see other classes pull that off at that level. Then again shortly after I watched a twinked monk 4 levels lower kill 2 solusek goblins at the same time, which was a bit humbling lol
  #52  
Old 04-29-2021, 08:05 PM
tadkins tadkins is offline
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Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Oh for me I just melee’d next to the pet or sometimes meditated, I didn’t spend much mana per mob, just something like our DOT to pull it usually if I recall. The killrate with the pet using a 2handed weapon is so high that even losing 50% exp it’s still worth it IMO

I don’t think you are missing any particular strat. It’s the same for mages too, their pets at early levels are taking 50% exp per kill since they don’t have the mana to be able to dps race it. When the pet is holding a 2hander and how strong pets are with those at early levels even losing 50% isn’t so bad when you can just keep chain killing almost non-stop

If you don’t have one just buy a few rusty 2handers off a vendor. It’s def worth it
I gotcha. Yep I gave my yellow con animation a rusty halberd at level 4 or so and just went to town on the mobs in Nektulos. I was also working on a side thing where I'd slaughter swathes of animals and spiders, making silk strings, turning the LQ/MQ pelts into leather padding to use later, and saving the HQ pelts. I had something to do and even though the exp felt miniscule I felt like I was still making progress and getting something done. Now that I'm level 8 though and those same spiders/animals aren't yielding exp I just feel...kinda lost, if that makes sense. I'm not really sure where to go now.

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Originally Posted by Taiku [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
You're gonna basically be a worse mage until you get to like level 25-30 when you can start holding charm reliably, buckle up.

Best bet is to try to find someone to level with, can use root to "distance agro" so you can step in and take a hit so your pet starts attacking.

I tried to skip as much as I could of the lower leveling with lots of grinding quests, lightstones in NK, bandits in WK and then raiders in NK/SK for bandit sashes.

There are some caster NPCs that you can kill very reliably as well at certain levels for solo play without charming as well, for example:
Happ Findlefinn (35 mage) at butcherblock docks, no faction hit or assist from anyone.
You can charm him so his pet despawns, med back up, break charm and mez.

Now with your helpless mage target you can Nuke > Mez > lowest lvl tash, and then repeat until dead.

The tash is to re-engage agro so in case your mez memblurs, which it does often, he doesn't start regenerating.

I would suggest setting up GINA if you haven't yet, there are probably good guides to do so, but to set up a timer so you know exactly when he's going to spawn so you can mez him before he buffs/summons a pet!

One of the most fun groups around the 25-30s is the High Keep basement goblins, charming Osargen (22 rogue prisoner) is a great low stakes learning experience for group charming and how powerful a rogue pet can be!
I am using my experience as a mage to try and compare things to an enchanter. For instance, I took a side break from the enchanter recently and picked up my 45 mage to go help my sister out. She plays a paladin and I took it on myself to go camp the shin lord in Guk to get her a ghoulbane. The whole time I was wondering "how would I go about this if I were on my enchanter?" wondering about the tactics I'd need to know later. I had to explore Guk a bit at the time since I never fought the shin lord before and had no idea what mobs were in the area and what tactics I'd need to know.

It seems daunting right now, to be honest. As an example...

Mage: Summon pet, equip pet, see mob, sic pet on mob, nuke.
While the enchanter would need to...
Identify appropriate mob to charm in the zone. Maintain control of mob. Have plan in case mob dies. Keep things CCed. Etc etc. It seems really difficult. Maybe I'm thinking too much, maybe I'm just wrong in general, but how *would* an enchanter be doing the same thing in my mage's situation? There are a lot of zones I don't know too well in the game, never really having the opportunity to explore and kill in them. It took a while to find my way to the shin lord's room. Still kind of does. Place is confusing as hell. And that's just one zone...

I'll keep all that in mind. I am a bit daunted by the whole GINA thing to be honest, and having to have extensive knowledge of every zone to know precisely what to charm. What does one do if the mob isn't available? Stuff like that.
Last edited by tadkins; 04-29-2021 at 08:11 PM..
  #53  
Old 04-29-2021, 08:35 PM
unsunghero unsunghero is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tadkins [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I gotcha. Yep I gave my yellow con animation a rusty halberd at level 4 or so and just went to town on the mobs in Nektulos. I was also working on a side thing where I'd slaughter swathes of animals and spiders, making silk strings, turning the LQ/MQ pelts into leather padding to use later, and saving the HQ pelts. I had something to do and even though the exp felt miniscule I felt like I was still making progress and getting something done. Now that I'm level 8 though and those same spiders/animals aren't yielding exp I just feel...kinda lost, if that makes sense. I'm not really sure where to go now.



I am using my experience as a mage to try and compare things to an enchanter. For instance, I took a side break from the enchanter recently and picked up my 45 mage to go help my sister out. She plays a paladin and I took it on myself to go camp the shin lord in Guk to get her a ghoulbane. The whole time I was wondering "how would I go about this if I were on my enchanter?" wondering about the tactics I'd need to know later. I had to explore Guk a bit at the time since I never fought the shin lord before and had no idea what mobs were in the area and what tactics I'd need to know.

It seems daunting right now, to be honest. As an example...

Mage: Summon pet, equip pet, see mob, sic pet on mob, nuke.
While the enchanter would need to...
Identify appropriate mob to charm in the zone. Maintain control of mob. Have plan in case mob dies. Keep things CCed. Etc etc. It seems really difficult. Maybe I'm thinking too much, maybe I'm just wrong in general, but how *would* an enchanter be doing the same thing in my mage's situation? There are a lot of zones I don't know too well in the game, never really having the opportunity to explore and kill in them. It took a while to find my way to the shin lord's room. Still kind of does. Place is confusing as hell. And that's just one zone...

I'll keep all that in mind. I am a bit daunted by the whole GINA thing to be honest, and having to have extensive knowledge of every zone to know precisely what to charm. What does one do if the mob isn't available? Stuff like that.
I can’t take credit, because I stole the strat from Rektyou (check his vids on YouTube, he has one of howling stones and killing frenzy? I believe that ghoul in lguk). The strat to break most dungeon camps is as follows

1. Gnome form
2. Mash face into wall from outside the room to see all the mobs in the room
3. Use the command /target [mob name] to target specific mobs through the wall
4. Cast lull from outside the room (doesn’t require line of sight)
5. Repeat until all mobs but 1 are lull’ed
6. Identify charm target -> mez -> tash -> charm, pull a diff mob outside the room and kill it with charm pet. Repeat until room is clear, charming new pet as necessary

Or, with a GGR, you can skip the lulling

Charm 1 mob, immediately entire room jumps on it. As quick as you can, root everything other than pet. When pet is sub-10% health GGR to break charm, repeat

Or

Another strat I have used is stand outside the room. Lead with aoe mez. Entire room gets mezzed. Then pick whatever you want as your charm target, tash charm, root others. Kill them 1 by 1 via charm pet, selecting new pet ad appropriate

I personally use strat 1 the most to break camps
  #54  
Old 04-29-2021, 08:53 PM
tadkins tadkins is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I can’t take credit, because I stole the strat from Rektyou (check his vids on YouTube, he has one of howling stones and killing frenzy? I believe that ghoul in lguk). The strat to break most dungeon camps is as follows

1. Gnome form
2. Mash face into wall from outside the room to see all the mobs in the room
3. Use the command /target [mob name] to target specific mobs through the wall
4. Cast lull from outside the room (doesn’t require line of sight)
5. Repeat until all mobs but 1 are lull’ed
6. Identify charm target -> mez -> tash -> charm, pull a diff mob outside the room and kill it with charm pet. Repeat until room is clear, charming new pet as necessary

Or, with a GGR, you can skip the lulling

Charm 1 mob, immediately entire room jumps on it. As quick as you can, root everything other than pet. When pet is sub-10% health GGR to break charm, repeat

Or

Another strat I have used is stand outside the room. Lead with aoe mez. Entire room gets mezzed. Then pick whatever you want as your charm target, tash charm, root others. Kill them 1 by 1 via charm pet, selecting new pet ad appropriate

I personally use strat 1 the most to break camps
Okay that I really appreciate. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] When the strat is written down step by step like that, it doesn't seem nearly as tough. That will help greatly and I will give that a try in a dungeon my level in the near future.

I currently am subscribed to Rektyou and plan to go through his videos at some point. I do like the fact that as an enchanter, you can go through dungeons by yourself room by room. I really don't know much about the game in terms of dungeons and was looking for a class that could explore them. I was able to do that to an extent with my mage, but knew it wouldn't really last forever. I was 45 and holding my own somewhat in Upper Guk, but I'm also like 15 levels above the zone and barely making it. Lower Guk would have destroyed me lols.

I was also considering just going monk instead but I really wanted to be something that could hang out in Neriak, my favorite city, and I dunno how well they'd do later. I know they're good in SolA when exceptionally geared but little else. I'm really not the biggest fan of iksar but it's hard to ignore how just so much better they are at the classes they can be. It's the same reason I have a hard time picking necromancer; i'd be that dark elf or human and just feel inadequate the whole time knowing iksar exist.
Last edited by tadkins; 04-29-2021 at 08:58 PM..
  #55  
Old 04-29-2021, 10:09 PM
Taiku Taiku is offline
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Your charms won't be permanent, as in holding the same mob for extended periods of time, unless you are in a group. So knowing what to charm typically comes down to it's level compared to yours, and its class. Rogues are best for backstabs and stuff. So knowing what to charm really isn't a big deal because you'll be cycling them in and out and experimenting with what is available.

Pacify is pretty huge if you've never played with it before, it's lull but you can literally stand/fight ontop of the mobs, if you can pacify a room you can take anything 1v1 pretty much.
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  #56  
Old 04-29-2021, 10:35 PM
Jimjam Jimjam is offline
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There are a couple of ways to get around the group penalty solo.

Mez the mob at low hp to clear it’s memory of damage done and nuke to finish it off for full xp.

Alternatively if you’ve done a lot of damage in the fight already you can dismiss the pet when mob is low hp and summon a new one.
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  #57  
Old 04-29-2021, 10:42 PM
unsunghero unsunghero is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tadkins [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Okay that I really appreciate. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] When the strat is written down step by step like that, it doesn't seem nearly as tough. That will help greatly and I will give that a try in a dungeon my level in the near future.

I currently am subscribed to Rektyou and plan to go through his videos at some point. I do like the fact that as an enchanter, you can go through dungeons by yourself room by room. I really don't know much about the game in terms of dungeons and was looking for a class that could explore them. I was able to do that to an extent with my mage, but knew it wouldn't really last forever. I was 45 and holding my own somewhat in Upper Guk, but I'm also like 15 levels above the zone and barely making it. Lower Guk would have destroyed me lols.

I was also considering just going monk instead but I really wanted to be something that could hang out in Neriak, my favorite city, and I dunno how well they'd do later. I know they're good in SolA when exceptionally geared but little else. I'm really not the biggest fan of iksar but it's hard to ignore how just so much better they are at the classes they can be. It's the same reason I have a hard time picking necromancer; i'd be that dark elf or human and just feel inadequate the whole time knowing iksar exist.
Yeah my next char would be Iksar twink monk most likely or maybe Iksar Necro

Two other things I learned the hard way:

1. You generally want to get in the habit of always leading with mez, then tash, then charm. If you try to just tash then charm, the mob will close the distance before charm finishes and you want to avoid taking any damage if at all possible. You could do root -> tash -> charm but root lasts longer so you are sitting there not able to utilize your charmed pet a bit longer. So the order is mez then tash, then charm. This way you never get hit

2. Hotkey a GCD reset to something you can hit quickly, for me I bound rod of glamour to Q button. When breaking charm, to be really safe you can use /pet guard here button to plant pet far away from you but often in cramped dungeons that just isn’t an option. So instead you would GGR (I hard cast invis since I don’t have a GGR) to break charm, then color shift (aoe stun), then immediately hit your rod of glamour hotkey, which will cast “alliance” on the mob (which does nothing), but it will reset your GCD. This means you will now have enough time to either root or mez while the mob is still stunned from the aoe stun. I choose to root vs melees, mez vs casters. This way you can break charms without being hit, even when the mob is close to you

I used to break charm with invis and not bother to aoe stun, just tank the mob swings while I cast root or mez. Then I would back up and finish the mob. As a chanter your health is 5x as precious as your mana, because it takes about 5 times longer to regen your health in troll form then to regen your mana with clarity. So guard your health like a dragon guarding its treasure. Every time I had tons of downtime, it was because I screwed up and took too much damage from a mob after manually breaking charm. Once you start resetting the GCD after color shift, you will get in the habit of doing it always. Tash -> GCD reset with rod of glamour -> root will allow you to root a mob before it can close the distance and hit you, whereas tash -> root would not give you enough time depending on how far away you are. I started getting in the habit of mashing the GCD reset hotkey after every spell. Usually I hit the GCD reset clicky hotkey so fast that I hit it like 3 times in between spell casts lol
Last edited by unsunghero; 04-29-2021 at 11:04 PM..
  #58  
Old 04-30-2021, 12:38 AM
tadkins tadkins is offline
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Another question just popped into my head. Say I'm out in the open world and I see a decently challenging rare mob. For the sake of this scenario, let's say it's this guy who drops a valuable enchanter gear piece. I'm by myself, nothing really to charm nearby for miles. This guy would be a challenge for my level. How does an enchanter kill him?
  #59  
Old 04-30-2021, 02:37 AM
Jimjam Jimjam is offline
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Tbh might be a struggle at level 8. Higher level you can charm him and take him to a fight somewhere more convenient. There isn’t a shortage of mobs in the broader mountains.
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  #60  
Old 04-30-2021, 03:34 AM
tadkins tadkins is offline
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Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Tbh might be a struggle at level 8. Higher level you can charm him and take him to a fight somewhere more convenient. There isn’t a shortage of mobs in the broader mountains.
Right I meant when I am at the appropriate level. xD

I'm just picturing scenarios out in the open world where there might not always be things available to charm.
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