What have we not thought of

[Mblake1981]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is the true solution. I'm sick of hearing "competitive" players telling casual players we need to earn our pixels when they're avoiding the server with true competition.

I'm guessing it's not nearly as fun to drop trains on a guild in NTOV if they can PVP in retaliation? After all, bullies only like pushing you around when you can't fight back.

When you get mauve server you can troll the blue server players about playing on blue server, that is all it amounts to.

[Mblake1981]

Originally Posted by Allishia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If there was no effort for the loot why would anyone play or value it? The value is there because not everyone can get it..

They have tons of pay to win / instanced servers for casual people /nod.

I worked hard for stuff I got and I love that and feel I earned it, tracking, leveling bots, etc to get ahead.

Just letting everyone have the same thing with no effort seems dumb and devalues it all. Let's give everyone a trophy so then it all means nothing..cause we can't have people who win, it might offend someone! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree with you but that is the direction its going, most new games are not worth any effort. The demographics have changed drastically since people now live their lives online.

[karadin]

Originally Posted by Bardp1999 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All variance does it make it so the no lifers are the only ones raiding. Tracking on P99 is literally a full-time job and there are just enough sickos willing to do it so that everyone has to do it or you just aren't part of the raid scene at all.

It would be far more classic in spirit if guilds could summon raid mobs - AKA undead bard and Trakanon - so that they could have scheduled guild activities.

You could have a reasonably successful "casual" guild by only competing for mobs that go in the last few hours of their window. Let's say there are roughly 30 raid targets per cycle. Assuming spawn time chances are evenly distributed, 7 or 8 of those will go in the last quarter of their window. The great thing is that you are guaranteed to have a shot at the mob as there will be a 100% chance it spawns while you're tracking it.

[karadin]

IMO the best way to achieve some level of parity is for devs to guarantee 2 quakes and 2 natural cycles each month. Quakes force the hardcore guilds to be selective giving enough room for casual guilds to kill some dragons. Cycle in between allows for casual guilds to have a breather if they wish, or they can use the tightly packed windows to score some kills.

[Argh]

Removing variance (or reducing it to like +/- 5minutes to prevent some cheesing on racing) would have a significant impact on the quality of life of everyone who raids, and people who want to raid.

For casual guilds it makes it possible to compete without needing a 200 man roster so that you can have all hours of targets windows covered, and lets them schedule raid targets, and compete with smaller numbers.

For hardcorde guilds it removes the Mike Rowe-esque dirty job of focusing intensely at a wall for 16 hours and lets people focus more on racing and metas that are actually relevant to gameplay.

For the staff it would ideally (possible pipe dream?) reduce the overall amount of elf lawyering since people aren't investing 100s of hours every cycle with possibly 0 return. At this point you could spend 40 hours writing your elf law complaints and still spend less time on it that you did on tracking 2 mobs.

The ironic thing here is that variance was added with the intent to stop poopsocking (it certainly stopped what was happening at the time), but all it has done is made it so you need to poopsock intensely for the entire duration to even have a chance.

It's not classic, and I'm not sure what purpose it has at this point.

[billcrystals]

I think pretty much 99% of people agree that more quakes would solve almost every issue the server's raid scene currently has. With the 1% dissent being the dev team for some reason? I truly dunno why they don't just do more quakes.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Allishia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If there was no effort for the loot why would anyone play or value it? The value is there because not everyone can get it..

They have tons of pay to win / instanced servers for casual people /nod.

I worked hard for stuff I got and I love that and feel I earned it, tracking, leveling bots, etc to get ahead.

Just letting everyone have the same thing with no effort seems dumb and devalues it all. Let's give everyone a trophy so then it all means nothing..cause we can't have people who win, it might offend someone! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ah, the ol' "go play elsewhere, this is our playground" bully tactic.

Did you ever stop to think that for some, the effort is about banding together with your friends, hashing out and executing a strategy, and getting the kill, and not about who clicked on a button a millisecond faster, who has the better raid rules loophole finders, or who recruited the most people with enough free time to muster a raid force at 3am? That is artificial effort created by other players as a barrier to entry, which serves to reduce competition.

Not specifically addressing you because I don't know your stance on the matter, but in general I find it ironic that the same players who whine about wanting pixels to require effort hate with a passion that NTOV dragons are rooted so they have to, as a minimum, put in an effort to COTH the entire raid force into position instead of a handful of players pulling the dragon to the zone for the other 60-100 warm bodies to kill and then log out.

Should it take effort or not? I'm confused.

[Allishia]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ah, the ol' "go play elsewhere, this is our playground" bully tactic.

Did you ever stop to think that for some, the effort is about banding together with your friends, hashing out and executing a strategy, and getting the kill, and not about who clicked on a button a millisecond faster, who has the better raid rules loophole finders, or who recruited the most people with enough free time to muster a raid force at 3am? That is artificial effort created by other players as a barrier to entry, which serves to reduce competition.

Not specifically addressing you because I don't know your stance on the matter, but in general I find it ironic that the same players who whine about wanting pixels to require effort hate with a passion that NTOV dragons are rooted so they have to, as a minimum, put in an effort to COTH the entire raid force into position instead of a handful of players pulling the dragon to the zone for the other 60-100 warm bodies to kill and then log out.

Should it take effort or not? I'm confused.

I like both pulling the dragons cause I made ton of dkp from hub and hall tags / parking pets with my rogue etc..and love the rooted dragons too cause you get to see everything now..

I will say a ton of people quit once they realized we had to clear ntov. But I enjoy pog and sky raids still so clearing is fun to me, love tanking things /nod..

And you can be casual and join a raid guild if all your wanting to do is kill some dragons and not expecting bis loots...don't have to play often, tbh I hardly play much at all anymore, just log in, tank a dragon or two or 3 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Mblake1981]

Originally Posted by Argh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Removing variance (or reducing it to like +/- 5minutes to prevent some cheesing on racing) would have a significant impact on the quality of life of everyone who raids, and people who want to raid.

For casual guilds it makes it possible to compete without needing a 200 man roster so that you can have all hours of targets windows covered, and lets them schedule raid targets, and compete with smaller numbers.

For hardcorde guilds it removes the Mike Rowe-esque dirty job of focusing intensely at a wall for 16 hours and lets people focus more on racing and metas that are actually relevant to gameplay.

For the staff it would ideally (possible pipe dream?) reduce the overall amount of elf lawyering since people aren't investing 100s of hours every cycle with possibly 0 return. At this point you could spend 40 hours writing your elf law complaints and still spend less time on it that you did on tracking 2 mobs.

The ironic thing here is that variance was added with the intent to stop poopsocking (it certainly stopped what was happening at the time), but all it has done is made it so you need to poopsock intensely for the entire duration to even have a chance.

It's not classic, and I'm not sure what purpose it has at this point.

i missed this post my first time through, felt relief reading it so i read the whole thing. Those inclined will poop sock any change or meta, it's their preferred play style. Maybe pick the least worst thing and stick with it.

[loramin]

Yendor is dropping truth bombs in this thread, and all the "arguments" against his points are so weak they're actually making the case for him.