Game Mechanics: Melee Special Bonuses

[Aadill]

Shiftin mentioned that when using Duelist (2x base damage) his minimum backstab was not doubled and would therefore hit with a minimum of 88 (current level 59 minimum damage) with Duelist on.

Originally Posted by Shiftin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

While we're at it, duelist is not raising the minimum damage value for backstabs when activated. Does anyone know if this is correct? I hit a duelist BS yesterday for 88 and facepalmed.

I also have encountered issues with double archery damage not increasing to 2x damage when hitting for a minimum hit. Minimum hit is 1+Bonus damage, or 1+18 in the case of my bow. In managing to hit a non-moving non-rooted target the mob is still possible of being hit for 19 damage despite receiving the double archery damage message.

It sounds like it might be a widespread issue of when the calculations of multiplying base damages are being made, but probably requires a bit more investigation.

[kanras]

Archery and throwing will be moved to the same damage calc formulas as all other attacks in next patch. This particular bug was unique to archery, and has been fixed. But the damage bonuses from the bow/arrow have been removed, so min damage will be lower still.

[Aadill]

Yay! Thanks for the fix but I think I just Daltheb'd rangers :x

What's the intended change? Archery is based off of DEX, not STR, so that should be taken into account. I'm looking through a bunch of data that only goes back to 2003/2004, with some basis from even earlier, but Archery isn't based off of STR and more importantly has more to do with it's own separate skill than anything else. I don't want to muddy the issue but I want to make sure the right numbers are used. Here's some stuff (albeit conflicting, possibly due to changes) that I found:

Here's some discussion based on some previous work from rangersglade that is no longer available circa 2003 and possibly earlier.

http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum...ead.php?t=2710

I will preface this with this quote:

http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum...2&postcount=10

"Also, has this been rechecke dpost Luclin, when the major ranger archery changes occurred?"


The major archery changes occured during Kurnak. Anything since then has just be additions to the ability (Endless Quiver, Archery Mastery, arrows, bows, etc), but the major changes to the way archery works revolved around implementing Trueshot and changing the skill after introduction to alter the way bows worked with the skill.

This should help indicate a before and after effect, even though the dates are off. I'm trying to find more info as I go along:

Circa 2003

the easiest way to know archery damage : like any weapon, a bow + arrow will have a damage/delay : total damage is sum of bow damage and arrow damage, and the same thing apply for delay (well, in fact delay = bow delay because until now, all arrows have 0 delay).
The fact is damage calculation does not work the same on archery and on melee, but the difference is simple : with a given weapon damage, archery will do 2 times less damage than melee.
Meaning a 20damage bow with a 2 dmg arrow will do the same damages than a 11 dmg weapon (with a 0 DB). fact is delay will prolly be more important, and u will lose the melee DB.
Meaning also that all formulas u use for melee will apply to archery if u use ((bow dmg + arrow dmg) /2) instead of (wpn dmg) and DB = 0

Circa 2004 from the Al'Kabor server:

http://www.eqmac.com/forums/viewtopi...4631&view=next

Range calculation is the one posted on the Ranger forum, (dex + skill + lvl) / 200 * (bow + arrow)


from this excercise the highest hit value i saw was 84
your calculator gave 84.645 (i did not add the bonus values in parenthesis) *

*This references a list of damage bonuses for his bow and arrow

no damage bonuses in the set i listed. (other than those attached to bow and arrow)

[kanras]

Re: Damage Bonuses
http://forums.hossguild.org/showthre...ll=1#post19954

[Wed Jan 23 05:37:20 2002] A Possessed Warmaster was hit by non-melee for 24 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:37:20 2002] You hit A Possessed Warmaster for 24 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:37:22 2002] Your bow shot did double dmg.
[Wed Jan 23 05:37:22 2002] A Possessed Warmaster was hit by non-melee for 24 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:37:22 2002] You hit A Possessed Warmaster for 24 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:37:27 2002] Your bow shot did double dmg.
[Wed Jan 23 05:37:27 2002] A Possessed Warmaster was hit by non-melee for 28 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:37:27 2002] You hit A Possessed Warmaster for 28 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:37:32 2002] Sneeky Scores a critical hit!(620) <-- NERF PLEASE )¤#=)2
[Wed Jan 23 05:37:34 2002] Your bow shot did double dmg.
[Wed Jan 23 05:37:34 2002] A Possessed Warmaster was hit by non-melee for 24 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:37:34 2002] You hit A Possessed Warmaster for 24 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:37:36 2002] Your bow shot did double dmg.
[Wed Jan 23 05:37:36 2002] A Possessed Warmaster was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:37:36 2002] You hit A Possessed Warmaster for 8 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:37:38 2002] Your bow shot did double dmg.
[Wed Jan 23 05:37:38 2002] A Possessed Warmaster was hit by non-melee for 148 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:37:38 2002] You hit A Possessed Warmaster for 148 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:37:39 2002] Your bow shot did double dmg.
[Wed Jan 23 05:37:39 2002] A Possessed Warmaster was hit by non-melee for 24 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:37:39 2002] You hit A Possessed Warmaster for 24 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:37:41 2002] Your bow shot did double dmg.
[Wed Jan 23 05:37:41 2002] A Possessed Warmaster was hit by non-melee for 24 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:37:41 2002] You hit A Possessed Warmaster for 24 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:37:43 2002] Your bow shot did double dmg.
[Wed Jan 23 05:37:43 2002] A Possessed Warmaster was hit by non-melee for 196 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:37:43 2002] You hit A Possessed Warmaster for 196 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:38:04 2002] Your bow shot did double dmg.
[Wed Jan 23 05:38:04 2002] Aedail Scores a critical hit!(110)
[Wed Jan 23 05:38:04 2002] A Possessed Warmaster was hit by non-melee for 110 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:38:04 2002] You hit A Possessed Warmaster for 110 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:38:06 2002] Your bow shot did double dmg.
[Wed Jan 23 05:38:06 2002] A Possessed Warmaster was hit by non-melee for 68 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:38:06 2002] You hit A Possessed Warmaster for 68 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:38:07 2002] Your bow shot did double dmg.
[Wed Jan 23 05:38:07 2002] A Possessed Warmaster was hit by non-melee for 296 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:38:07 2002] You hit A Possessed Warmaster for 296 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:38:11 2002] Your bow shot did double dmg.
[Wed Jan 23 05:38:11 2002] A Possessed Warmaster was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:38:11 2002] You hit A Possessed Warmaster for 8 points of damage
[Wed Jan 23 05:38:16 2002] Your bow shot did double dmg.
[Wed Jan 23 05:38:16 2002] A Possessed Warmaster was hit by non-melee for 24 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:38:16 2002] You hit A Possessed Warmaster for 24 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:38:20 2002] Your bow shot did double dmg.
[Wed Jan 23 05:38:20 2002] A Possessed Warmaster was hit by non-melee for 308 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:38:20 2002] You hit A Possessed Warmaster for 308 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:38:22 2002] Your bow shot did double dmg.
[Wed Jan 23 05:38:22 2002] A Possessed Warmaster was hit by non-melee for 12 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:38:22 2002] You hit A Possessed Warmaster for 12 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:38:24 2002] Your bow shot did double dmg.
[Wed Jan 23 05:38:24 2002] A Possessed Warmaster was hit by non-melee for 24 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:38:24 2002] You hit A Possessed Warmaster for 24 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:38:29 2002] Your bow shot did double dmg.
[Wed Jan 23 05:38:29 2002] A Possessed Warmaster was hit by non-melee for 300 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:38:29 2002] You hit A Possessed Warmaster for 300 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:38:31 2002] Your bow shot did double dmg.
[Wed Jan 23 05:38:31 2002] A Possessed Warmaster was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:38:31 2002] You hit A Possessed Warmaster for 8 points of damage.
[Wed Jan 23 05:38:32 2002] Your bow shot did double dmg.
[Wed Jan 23 05:38:32 2002] A Possessed Warmaster was hit by non-melee for 172 points of damage.

[Aadill]

Hmmm you're right. Judging by the rest of the log he's using both Primal Weapons and a Primal Bow, which is 33 damage. No bow seems to list a damage bonus like weapons do, and nor do Arrows. With that said he's hitting as low as 8 and it's counting as double damage. o.O

Good find on the log, Kanras. The only things additive between the two is DMG and Range. (Technically delay, as well, but it's 0). Good catch on the bug [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[kanras]

Server was using STR for all archery damage calculations already. If you can dig up some first-hand data, I can look into changing over those values to DEX.