Want to Start a Rogue and Just want to Make Sure I Understand a Couple Things

[7thGate]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And tanks and pullers and bumpers. If your conception of a rogue is limited to half afk DPS, that might be more a reflection of your own ability at this game.

I am continuously amazed at how little people expect from Rogues in general. People expect DPS and corpse drags, but basically nothing else. There's a bunch of pulls that Rogues are really good at, we have the fastest recharging and second longest lasting bump disc, we have snap aggro on engage using poison. Furor's the only person I've raided with back during an old...Freedom? teamup with Aegis that has ever asked for an opening bump with snap aggro to allow a warrior to totem aggro, and he wasn't even asking for Rogues. I volunteered because I knew I could fill that job and we didn't have a ranger, and we were getting crickets from anyone else who could possibly do it.

I think part of the reason is that Rogues can do their main job as a semi-afk warmbody, so people who do not want to be part of the pull/engage team are more likely to gravitate towards the class since you can get away with a pretty simple role if you want. People get mad at monks who just DPS and refuse to pull, but people don't do the same to Rogues.

There's nothing really wrong with that, sometimes you aren't in a position where you can step up to do anything complicated and it can be nice to just have a job where you stand there and press two buttons every 5 seconds. But its also nice to be able to try to use some of the other things the class can do and stretch a little sometimes.

[Toxigen]

Originally Posted by 7thGate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am continuously amazed at how little people expect from Rogues in general. People expect DPS and corpse drags, but basically nothing else. There's a bunch of pulls that Rogues are really good at, we have the fastest recharging and second longest lasting bump disc, we have snap aggro on engage using poison. Furor's the only person I've raided with back during an old...Freedom? teamup with Aegis that has ever asked for an opening bump with snap aggro to allow a warrior to totem aggro, and he wasn't even asking for Rogues. I volunteered because I knew I could fill that job and we didn't have a ranger, and we were getting crickets from anyone else who could possibly do it.

I think part of the reason is that Rogues can do their main job as a semi-afk warmbody, so people who do not want to be part of the pull/engage team are more likely to gravitate towards the class since you can get away with a pretty simple role if you want. People get mad at monks who just DPS and refuse to pull, but people don't do the same to Rogues.

There's nothing really wrong with that, sometimes you aren't in a position where you can step up to do anything complicated and it can be nice to just have a job where you stand there and press two buttons every 5 seconds. But its also nice to be able to try to use some of the other things the class can do and stretch a little sometimes.

Therein lies the issue with bloated big guilds.

Shitters being lazy / unwilling to step up while getting the same DKP as the playmakers.

[Croco]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Therein lies the issue with bloated big guilds.

Shitters being lazy / unwilling to step up while getting the same DKP as the playmakers.

It's a symbiotic relationship. Without warm bodies to kill the mobs the pullers and playmakers can't do shit. They get the mob into camp then die. Should you just warm body all the time? Probably not.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Croco [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's a symbiotic relationship. Without warm bodies to kill the mobs the pullers and playmakers can't do shit. They get the mob into camp then die. Should you just warm body all the time? Probably not.

Exactly. You need both to get the kill. Ideally people swap between warm body and playmaker. This circulates knowledge better, and helps to prevent burnout.

The way it typically works out is you have too much time and become a permanent playmaker. Or you have too little time, and you become a permanent warm body.

It is a rare breed that can be a part time playmaker. The best you can hope for is warm bodies who are willing to step up and get on guild bots.

It's a skill to be a good puller, for example, and you are going to lose to the permanent playmakers if you only practice a little bit. I think that is why it is tougher to be successful as a guild with part time playmakers filling those kinds of critical roles.

[Cecily]

Playmaker vs warmbody rhetoric is stupid af too. I'm not getting into that. I'm speaking more to the limited idea of what rogues can do perpetually spouted by you people. If you're a "half-afk warmbody" you're not a good player and you're not doing your job regardless of your class. Rogue is a very active class and it takes focus to play it well. And if you're geared right (Hint: AC/HP), and have the mechanic knowledge.. rogues are tanks and pullers as well.

[fortior]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

nah mayne rogues are amazingly good in VP

VP loot should be better for how fun and involved the zone is

[Cecily]

It's a fun experience regardless. I have everything I want there and it's still my favorite raid zone. Like the loot that's good there is *really really* good.

[fortior]

I go there to do the nexona pull, after lots of practice I still flub it at times, but it's a great zone. It's like a hurdle race/sprint instead of the marathon that is ntov

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by fortior [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I go there to do the nexona pull, after lots of practice I still flub it at times, but it's a great zone. It's like a hurdle race/sprint instead of the marathon that is ntov

The drop down hosh and run back up for nexona pull is :chefs kiss:

[Vexenu]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And if you're geared right (Hint: AC/HP), and have the mechanic knowledge.. rogues are tanks and pullers as well.

Things warm body Rogues tell themselves as the Chad main tanks and Monk pull team walk by with big swinging dicks.

Rogue: H-h-hey Chad Warrior, guess what? I pumped STA at creation
Chad Warrior: That's great kid *flicks toothpick at Rogue* Try not to catch aggro today, right?
Rogue: Sure, right!
Chad Monk: Hey Rogue, I heard you wanted to pull.
Rogue: Y-y-yeah Chad Monk, that's my dream.
Chad Monk: All right, I got something you can pull.
Rogue: Really? What is it?
Chad Monk: Your fucking shine box out of the closet!
Rogue: [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]