PvP Thread, Balancing issues / Parsing / Resists / Known issues.

[Macken]

Originally Posted by wehrmacht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes. In the first expansion, melee damage is gimp so I don't think it's that big of a deal if casters have to deal with line of sight as a trade off for much better burst DPS. Once kunark comes out, there are fast casting wizard draughts and faster mage nukes so it's way less of an issue then. If you remove the "melee better in dungeons and casters better outside" dynamic, then it just wouldn't be EQ either.

Smedy has already warned the GM's about this. If you are a GM and read the above hilarity, do not be trolled.


EQ is Melee oriented through Velious and beyond. If you want to be a top pvper, roll melee. Because if you roll a caster, there is no way to be a top pkr past week 3, unless you have played alot...even then... it would be tough.

There is no dungeon that a caster could win a fight in with a LoS check at end of casting. It gets even worse in Kunark, which is why the above troll was over the top. Less is more when trolling Macht.

If you want to get rid of all casters, then you should just do it at the beginning instead of making them figure it out after 6 weeks of exping, then they quit.

All of the melee trolls in this and the other thread about their need to remain OP vs. casters will end the same way VZTZ did. You will have your time in the sun, but in the end, you will be playing alone. And this time, you won't have anyone to buff or port you because we are all melees now.

[Bombfist]

Originally Posted by KilyenaMage [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Did any GMs ask you to make this thread?

Again...the sense of entitlement is truly astounding.

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem is, Project 1999 code isn't ready to handle wide scale pvp. There are numerous issues with the pvp combat at the moment that need to be worked out.. and where to begin I wouldn't even know. That's where you guys come in.. to start making notes on what needs to be fixed in pvp on the current server (via dueling or arena fights).

Kilyena, vacate my thread.

Are you trying to claim that whirl till you hurl should be a PvP usable spell and people are just supposed to stand there stunned for like 20 seconds straight? I hope you're joking

Wehrmact, read the OP.

The post suggests that the spells need looking at since we don't know how they function on P99 code.

Again, we're not asking questions, this is a list of items/suggestions that need testing, i'm not asking for peoples opinion here, we're asking for issues that need testing and then it's up to the devs what they do with the server.

[Bombfist]

Originally Posted by Isidro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll try and test out some of those issues listed tomorrow. I know fear and charm do not work on other players in a pvp setting on p99. I believe fear does work on players' pets though.

Should be pretty easy to come up with some answers on z-axis stuff, attacking through walls, ranger arrows, and things like that.

Thanks for the use of your chars Isidro, if you could PM me i'd be up for doing some testing for a few hours if you would be available.

[wehrmacht]

Originally Posted by Macken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you want to be a top pvper, roll melee. Because if you roll a caster, there is no way to be a top pkr past week 3, unless you have played alot...even then... it would be tough.

First off, this statement is completely false because anyone that played Sullon Zek from day 1 will remember the top of the scoreboard was nothing but casters until the day the scoreboard shut down. Druids with tracking and Darkenbane wizards with tracking would sneak up on people all day and blow them away with spells. The server came out when Velious was max expansion just like this server.

Classes like monks were completely useless for PvP due to having barely any access to resist gear whatosever and no 2h access either. I think I had like 70 magic resist while fighting in karnors at level 58 and I was in the best guild on the server. There wasn't jacinth jewelery and tstaffs falling out of the sky like on TZVZ. I think a druid could cast damage shield on themselves, spam self heal and kill a h2h monk with no buffs or haste. Sure a monk with Tstaff is overpowered but you can camp one for 6 months straight and not see one on real EQ. Rogue is the same way, terrible for pvp without epic. Even if they get an epic, anyone that isn't retarded and can use a 2h still rapes them.

I think you people underestimate how awful melee damage is with no buffs or haste (which will be the norm for a no bot server). On TZVZ, strength didn't do anything and the max damage multiplier was set to a fixed value of like 4.5 or 5.0. For an unbuffed human, dark elf, etc, that multiplier will be like a 3.0 on this server. So yea, you're already looking at an enormous damage reduction for anyone not playing a raid geared ogre, troll, or barb.

Originally Posted by Macken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is no dungeon that a caster could win a fight in with a LoS check at end of casting. It gets even worse in Kunark, which is why the above troll was over the top. Less is more when trolling Macht.

For LoS, casters had no problem whatsoever pvp'ing in Karnors and Sebillis was a nightmare for anyone to PvP in regardless of their class.

Originally Posted by Macken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All of the melee trolls in this and the other thread about their need to remain OP vs. casters will end the same way VZTZ did. You will have your time in the sun, but in the end, you will be playing alone. And this time, you won't have anyone to buff or port you because we are all melees now.

You do know that epic mage pets could solo warriors in kunark right? And necros cast 2700 damage dots that land basically every time?

There are only 3 offensive casters in game: wiz, mage, and necro

All three of those do fine during Kunark and velious. I'll admit sending an epic mage pet then running away and hiding doesn't sound all that fun but whatever, it gets the job done.

[nilbog]

I'm gonna go ahead and say this now. If you cherry pick content issues that you claim are wrong without providing anything to the contrary in any effort to bolster some NON-related issue .. it's irritating.

Originally Posted by Lasher [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

even p99 isnt just like it was in 1999. Things have been altered or left out or competely changed. Is the quilmane spawn like it was 1999?

You tell me. Bug report it if you know something I don't.

Originally Posted by Lasher [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why do you care. The devs balance p99. Ring of the dead on live was clickable by all but a dev made a comment that that would be to powerful for an item to be on p99 that many didnt have on live

Why is this in a pvp thread? I'm the only dev that looked into that quest.. and made it possible do at all. Since it couldn't conclusively be deemed clickable from inventory.. it wasn't changed. None of these people owned one on live still? Not a single one.. sounds so common.

Anyways, I abhor... fucking strawman arguments. I love pvp, but this has absolutely nothing to do with it.

[nilbog]

Legitimate PVP bugs need to be fixed. I would still like to eventually do some Best of the Best fights.. and /duels should work properly regardless of server.

Issues changed simply to balance a possible future pvp server.. are off topic, and need their own place.

So.. we need 2 different lists. General PVP bugs, and pvp issues deemed in need of change, for a pvp server to work better.

Please have it consolidated, and outlined into what needs fixed for /duels and botb on p99, and what are deemed possible proprietary (albeit non-classic) changes needed to balance a pvp-only server.

[Lasher]

The intent isnt trying to cherry pick content. Everything is up to the devs final decision. Bombfist and I are just trying to bring issues up that we think need to be considered.

Fear//charm. We arent saying it should or shouldnt be in. What we are saying is the dev need to consider it. 1999 fear and charm worked on pc's. Bard fear worked on pc up into kunark. The Dev on live eq eventually learned that it was a broken feature in pvp and removed. Maybe you will decide to leave it until a certain point or never put it in.

I made those comments because some guy was saying it shouldnt be balanced, it shuld be 1999 and maybe its true but there are a few things that left in game because it was in 1999 would break the game. Start of server you could loot weapons off people eventually that was change. Also start of server if you /consented a person that person could loot all your items.Start of server wolf form made you unkos to most and was usable in dungeons eventually that was nerfed

You can respond with asking me to give you dates to support what i said above but its not the point. With or with out proof of what i said above i think we can all agree there are few issues that we all know that were in 1999 that should be considered being put in because it was eventually taken out because it was deemed broken or an exploit or what ever.

[Bombfist]

Nilbog the aim i have here is to tackle pvp issues that are actually a problem with the current p99 code, if you can read the opening thread those are the issues for the most part i want to test, i've added some questions in there that people have raised int his thread, but the most important part for me is testing issues with AC/resists.

Parsing is what's important and getting actual facts from tests, that's what the OP will be for when i've actually got a chance to do proper testing.

I think lasher is simply replying to people who continually attempt to troll any pvp thread into the RnF bin, his argument is that the aim would be not to make everything 100% like it was on classic, and from a pvp point of view it would be ridiculous to ignore the changes that were made later on, that were obvious improvements.

The opening post will be consolidated into what's been tested and what's outstanding, it's currently in a state of information gathering so i know what needs testing to provide you with as much information as possible.

On a side note alot of the pvp "idea's" would be down to your preference nilbog, or whoever was to head whatever might happen or will, i simply wanted to make a thread to troubleshoot where rogean requested notes on pvp etc, so the most part of this thread will just be parse information along with tested encounters to find obvious pvp flaws, line of sight casting etc.

After i've done some testing, directing your attention to the opening post will eventually end up being productive since too many people from this community find an urge to troll every single thread made about pvp.

[tj218]

It was probably 160 at the max to avoid some kind of side strafing exploit BS'ing. I think 160 would probably be the best value overall..

Bah, I don't have the data, but on live during Kunark and before, I remember joust fights where I (as a Rouge) would land backstabs on the pass. In fact I remember practicing this for hours with a friend to get my timing right. It was always 180 degrees....

[Isidro]

PM'd you, bombfist.