Originally Posted by nilbog

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Dolalin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Seeing as Nilbog has had infinite opportunities to tell me to fuck off with my random and time-wasting Classic EQ research, and has yet not told me to fuck off, I am going to assume he's at least slightly interested in going in a more classic direction.

If I'm wrong, of course, feel free to tell me to fuck off.

No fucks needed! We're 100% on the same side, in agreement, or however you want to put it. All I was saying is, don't try to make me out to be some dev-doubting naysayer, when I was literally the only one in the forum wasting countless hours arguing that Green would someday exist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Things do change here, they do get better, and I love seeing it when it happens. I'm 100% hoping that good stuff comes out of your thread.

I was just saying that, simply because you got lucky and showed up at the right time for Nilbog to suddenly seem interested ... it doesn't change the fact that for the past 5+ years he hasn't shown any such interest. And in the absence of any communication whatsoever, the idea that Nilbog didn't want (100%) classic ZEMs has flourished.

This is the logical thing to conclude when the stated goal of the project "classic", and some obviously unclassic thing sits unchanged for five years. That's doubly so when no special classic research is required (as I understand it, all the classic ZEMs are in the default EQ Emu values, so if they aren't classic Nilbog had to deliberately change them to be unclassic). And then on top of that, whenever anyone mentioned it for five years, they were always told "Nilbog wants it that way".

So again, I didn't create the idea! I've just played here for five years and learned it from everyone else, the same way I learned (say) that the devs want OOT to be unclassic. It's not like Nilbog announces that to the forum every dayeither, but even so I assume the community wisdom on it is correct ... and again, he almost never says anything, ever, to clarify anything.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I will happily let it go ... if they ever do actually contradict me. But Nilbog saying "sources?" is very much not Nilbog saying "yes I want classic ZEMs on all Project 1999 servers" ... much to my chagrin. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You have to understand: I WANT TO BE WRONG!

I truly do want Nilbog to tell me I'm an idiot who doesn't understand classic EQ, and that actually the ZEMs have been classic for years and I've just been too stupid to notice. Or that maybe the current ZEMs are the best he can do, and he's always wanted evidence to fix them, it just took five years for someone like Dolalain to submit it. Or maybe that ...

Really I don't care about the exact scenario, and I don't care about being publically "owned by Nilbog": I just want classic ZEMs.

If you say "X person does this and/or wants this" and X person sees that and says "source?" that means they are deliberately contradicting your claim. If they weren't they wouldn't call you out. There's no way to spin it.

[Gatorsmash]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

source?

Preface- I love the server and appreciate all the work you and the staff do buuuut... That's such a disingenuous question/response because while I know for a fact Runnyeye and Cazic dungeon zems are incorrect since I played them on live with the same class combo's its impossible to prove what the numbers really were which means your guessing as well.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Gatorsmash [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Preface- I love the server and appreciate all the work you and the staff do buuuut... That's such a disingenuous question/response because while I know for a fact Runnyeye and Cazic dungeon zems are incorrect since I played them on live with the same class combo's its impossible to prove what the numbers really were which means your guessing as well.

I think you're missing the point of his response. He is contesting Loramin's statement that he essentially makes things unclassic on purpose to create some sort of mystery over ZEMs to try and simulate what it was on live and that some people on here want classic ZEMs but Nilbog refuses to provide them.

[loramin]

I think you're reading a lot into a one-word response.

It is beyond obvious that Nilbog was calling me out and questioning something I said. But it's not at all clear what specifically he was trying to say. He could have meant:

• P99 has unclassic ZEMs, on purpose, but where'd you get the idea that I want them (maybe Rogean does?)
  
• P99 used to have unclassic ZEMs, on purpose, but I changed my mind and now want them classic
  
• P99 used to have unclassic ZEMs, but it was never on purpose and I've fixed them long ago
  
• P99 used to and still does have unclassic ZEMs, and I know this, but it's only because no one submitted any evidence for five years until Dolalain did
  
• P99 used to and still does have unclassic ZEMs, and I want most of them to be classic, but not Kedge because fuck that zone
  
• P99 ... I could go on, but you get the idea

If I had to guess, my best guess is that Nilbog didn't care about ZEMs for awhile, presumably because he had an entire 20-year old game to emulate and just cared more about other things. He also hates talking to us (can you blame him?)

As a result, the community got the mistaken impression that he didn't want classic ZEMs, when really he just didn't want to deal with ZEMs. But now with Green/Teal he's been reminded of them, and now he's going to take Dolalain's evidence and classic the fuck (please feel free to steal that phrase) out of our ZEMs ...

.. but again that's just a guess, and really we're all just guessing, because the dude made a one-word post in response to my wall of text [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[cd288]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think you're reading a lot into a one-word response.

It is beyond obvious that Nilbog was calling me out and questioning something I said. But it's not at all clear what specifically he was trying to say. He could have meant:

• P99 has unclassic ZEMs, on purpose, but where'd you get the idea that I want them (maybe Rogean does?)
  
• P99 used to have unclassic ZEMs, on purpose, but I changed my mind and now want them classic
  
• P99 used to have unclassic ZEMs, but it was never on purpose and I've fixed them long ago
  
• P99 used to and still does have unclassic ZEMs, and I know this, but it's only because no one submitted any evidence for five years until Dolalain did
  
• P99 used to and still does have unclassic ZEMs, and I want most of them to be classic, but not Kedge because fuck that zone
  
• P99 ... I could go on, but you get the idea

If I had to guess, my best guess is that Nilbog didn't care about ZEMs for awhile, presumably because he had an entire 20-year old game to emulate and just cared more about other things. He also hates talking to us (can you blame him?)

As a result, the community got the mistaken impression that he didn't want classic ZEMs, when really he just didn't want to deal with ZEMs. But now with Green/Teal he's been reminded of them, and now he's going to take Dolalain's evidence and classic the fuck (please feel free to steal that phrase) out of our ZEMs ...

.. but again that's just a guess, and really we're all just guessing, because the dude made a one-word post in response to my wall of text [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Whatever makes you feel better I suppose. You've been saying the same thing in your original comment for awhile now and arguing it over and over, and now Nilbog comes and basically contradicts you and you're scrambling to be like "no! I'm not wrong!" since it's kind of embarrassing to argue over and over that X person wants/does something and then have that person essentially be like "no I don't"

[ZiggyTheMuss]

Imagine the entitlement

[loramin]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and you're scrambling to be like "no! I'm not wrong!"

I answered this was way back on page 5 ... do try to keep up [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You have to understand: I WANT TO BE WRONG!

[loramin]

On review (damn I wish RnF had edit), I think the "defensiveness" you're picking up on is between me and Dolalain (note that the post you quoted was in fact a reply to him). I was just "defending" the fact that we had no classic ZEM activity for five years, because he seems to be newer here and (sort of) called me out earlier.

But again, all the stuff about us not having classic ZEMs I want to be wrong about. As I've tried hard to stress, I very much don't want things to continue the way they are, and for Dolalain's research to be ignored.

Nothing would make me happier than Nilbog "giving me the middle finger " ... in the form of a patch that adds classic ZEMs [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Horza]

Loramin, please allow cd288 to continue translating the oracle's one word answers for us lowly commoners.