Balancing AC and HP (For Paladins/ShadowKnights)

[Stinkum]

This thread assumes AC and HP are all that should matter in choosing items as a Pally or SK (besides resists). Would like to hear the input of people who have tanked alot.

My main questions are:

1 - How "good" or "worthwhile" are returns on AC in game?
2 - How do you make decisions about AC vs HP in gear?
3 - Is Blood Ember/Deepwater gear always going to be BiS for the most part due to the high AC?

Regarding question #2.. It would be great if anyone can be specific as possible. For example, say you have an Mithril Breastplate (+30 HP but only 17 AC) and a 22 AC chest with no HP.. Which one would you use and why?

[Danth]

This depends, first, on who you have healing you. Hit points only have a significant efficiency impact on Clerics using Complete Healing. On my 60 SK, I'm virtually always running around with a Shaman as healer and only rarely have a Cleric, so I heavily prioritize AC over HP. I ended up with what I consider fair HP as well since a lot of tank gear has good values for both. My own experience with AC was that it seemed to get proportionally more effective as I got more of it. I noticed very little difference going from 900 to 1000 AC, and quite a lot of improvement going from 1000 to 1100. As such I treat it as an "all or nothing" stat--I recommend either focusing on it heavily or treating it as a tertiary stat. I feel a moderate AC level is a bad compromise--worse than both high AC, or low AC with high hit points.

You should also account for what you're tanking. High ATK monsters (particularly some raid named) devalue the importance of AC relative to HP, especially also since you'll receive Complete Heal spam probably from several Clerics. Folks gearing specifically for raid tanking therefore oftentimes focus primarily on HP and resists and simply accept whatever AC they end up with.

Blood Ember or Deepwater won't be best in slot come Velious. Prior to then, it's generally good armor for regular use that will be swapped out when you want encounter-specific gearing. Whether I'd wear that Mithril BP or 22AC BP comes down to whether I could reach enough AC for it to seem to work. Most the time I'd probably select the mithril BP; the 25 AC enameled black BP offers a tougher choice.

[Stinkum]

Thanks Danth.

Originally Posted by Danth

the 25 AC enameled black BP offers a tougher choice.

Noob question but I have never played tanks.

Is there any difference between a 25 AC Enameled Black BP and a 25 AC Treeweave (same AC but different material)?

[Danth]

No Stinkum, there's no difference whatsoever from material. 25 worn AC is 25 worn AC. In the case of your example the Treeweave is simply a better piece of equipment.

There *is* a difference between worn AC and AC gained from agility or Defense skill (or, at least there was on Live), but that's beyond the scope of this thread.

Danth

[Vadd]

Example....

Indicolite Gauntlets (16ac, 5dex, 5sta, 50hp) > Cobalt Gauntlets (25AC)
in my opinion....

expanded: thats basically a +100hp pair of gauntlets.... with dex..... cant pass it up.

[Stinkum]

@Danthe, I think you are right about either going all-in on AC.

Two follow-up questions.

1 - Does all of what you're saying apply to low-level Paladin/Shadow Knights?
2 - What about belt slot? FBSS has 0 AC, and I definitely couldn't afford a RBG and not high enough level to get a planar haste item. Would it be worth forgoing a haste belt item for more AC?

[Danth]

If you're a Paladin or SK in the tank role for a full or near-full group, haste is effectively optional: No group is going to care how much damage you do anyway. That's not why they invited you. I never had haste on my Paladin (a character I used solely for group tanking) and it simply didn't matter. If you solo or participate in smaller groups (on my SK I mainly duo with the wife, for example), then your own damage output matters much more. As such it becomes worth sacrificing one slot for that zero AC FBSS simply because the target will die more quickly, thus saving you from additional damage intake.

If you're not sure, buy the FBSS and a cheap 8 AC Thick Leather Apron and put on the AC belt when you feel like you don't need haste. At 46 plus you can potentially head to Plane of Sky and loot a 8 AC 16% haste belt; they rot regularly due to the lack of Paladins and SK's on P1999.

I believe Warriors receive a better HP multiplier from Stamina than Paladins or Shadow Knights. My 60 SK receives 5 HP per point of stamina.

EDIT: For low-level players, just do the best you can. Hit points don't matter so much at low levels simply because they offer no real efficiency gain (no complete heal yet), though they do of course improve your time-to-death lifespan. AC helps, but it's hard to stack in sufficient values to make a good difference: AC and monster damage output have always been a little wonky on P1999 and it's particularly rough in the middle level ranges. In my opinion life is easier as a tank at 50+ than it was at 30.

Danth

[Lorraine]

There used to be a formula, later down in the EQ expansions that actually gave you the trade offs between each stat so you could balance your gear accordingly.

The biggest problem when it comes to AC is the fact that you have to play it by ear.
For example, there are a lot of people that will tell you that AC in P99 is broken. Or that it doesn't work exactly like it should. Others will tell you that AC is awesome until you hit the hard cap, and then gives diminishing returns as you reach the soft cap. Or that there is no hard cap and there is only soft cap. A lot of speculation going on about this stuff, and more so here in the forums.

As far as your questions, from a paladin stand off :

1 -- They are good, and they are worthwhile. The degree how ever, varies in regards to where you exp, what you are fighting, and what your group is consisted off. If you pull non-casting, fast hitting mobs to a group without a slower, AC will help tremendously. If you are pulling Guk/Krup wizards around corners to your group, AC will not help you much against getting Ice Cometed.

2 -- Preferably look for both. AC/HP or AC/STA. The thing is, at this moment, there's no 'magical set on stone' number that you can follow. Someone might say "Well, you should only trade 1 AC per 5 HP on gear". The other might say "I disagree, you should only trade 2 AC per 5HP on gear". Truth be told, until you reach the hardcap on AC, then you should never neglect it. As far as to choosing gear pieces and comparing, again it comes with experience and factoring in other parameters. In your example, one will argue that 17ac + 30HP overshadows 22 raw AC mainly because resists aren't into the equation. And the biggest rule of Everquest is that "A distant lack of hit points is the number one reason of deaths in the game". So, your resists are lacking? Then your HitPoints 'become' your resists. (Although basically it's Level>Resists>Hit Point pool, but you get the point here). But in the other hand, if your AC is severely lacking, then 22 AC might come out on top in the long run against 17AC+30hp. Why? Because you will mitigate more damage, making it easier for your healer to keep you up, thus managing their mana pool better. For example, it won't do you any good if you have 3k HP at 60 and be absorbing damage like a chain or leather class.

3 -- Deepwater Greaves are currently BiS. The Breastplate is very good to have during your leveling, since it's a manaless heal. Statwise, Valorium breastplate is 'better' due to +STA (since neither has any resists, hit points are kind of desirable to have). The rest of the Deepwater set, I would advise you to get, and keep it. When you start being able to click them (46), then you will find a lot of perks. Helm is a clicky (non reagent, chest eats jaspers) heal. Arms allow you to manaless lull and save you a gem slot in your spell selection. Bracer can be used as a manaless pulling tool or even as a threat generating tool during fights (yet channeling a 7sec cast which is the duration iirc might prove challenging) that you have use if you run close to oom. Gloves again save you a gem slot and can be used as a pulling tool. Boots give you access to a spell you currently don't have. They are all useful imo. Would I rank them higher than the enchanted dwarven plate armor during leveling (for dwarves)? Probably not.


Velious will change a lot of that, you'll have a lot more gear choices, and most of them will be more clear cut and easier to pick the best piece amongst the ones you compare.

[Stinkum]

Thank you to Danth and Lorraine for taking the time to type that.

<3

[pharmakos]

it also depends on your level

http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...33&postcount=1

RAW AC

Hardcap on Raw AC for non casters was 289 at level 60. Hardcap for casters was 385. Looking at the numbers at the bottom of Kavhok's post, a level 51 Monk with 163 Raw AC was at the Hardcap. Raw AC caps for every class (except Nec/Wiz/Mag/Ench) per level should look like this from 51-60. It's just an assumption but I bet AC was hardcapped per level from 1-50 also. However the increase was much smaller. It looks like 3 AC per level.

Melee (non casters)

60 - 289
59 - 275
58 - 261
57 - 247
56 - 233
55 - 219
54 - 205
53 - 191
52 - 177
51 - 163
50 - 149 or 50 - 160
40 - 119 or 40 - 130
30 - 89 or 30 - 100
20 - 59 or 20 - 70
10 - 29 or 10 - 40
1 - 2 or 1 - 10

"RAW AC" is determined by adding up the AC stat on each of your pieces of armor, not by looking at AC on your inventory screen.