Merchants: Evidence merchants should be immune to charm

[DMN]

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.games.everquest/charm$20merchant%7Csort:date/alt.games.everquest/EMsq68aYKrU/QASJQO-76TIJ

There are numerous interesting posts in this thread regarding it.

All in all it seems to suggest some specific NPC merchants were flagged as uncharmable, but these were exceptions. These are also from early 2001, so no 100% ideal time frame.


"The TBoots merchant can't be charmed. Not even Dictate (level 60 enchanter
charm) works on that vendor.

Since SKs don't get sneak (they get hide, not sneak), the only way Fomar is
going to get TBoots is to do it the hard way and build faction."


This guy seems to know what he is talking about, appearing to even have first hand knowledge of dictate usage. and the way it is written suggests that it's not the usual case merchants are uncharmable.


Other posts in that thread seems to convey that merchants were thought generally charmable and some are even incredulous this sol a one seems to not be. one appearing to be a high level enchanter himself saying he is going to test it himself with dictate:

[DMN]

Also as an sidenote, but an important one, I'm not sure what can be drawn from the information regarding the uncharmable vendors in Kael. In P99's timeline it never would have been possible to charm the kael vendors anyway, since they are level 60 or higher.

[Castle2.0]

/thread

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also as an sidenote, but an important one, I'm not sure what can be drawn from the information regarding the uncharmable vendors in Kael. In P99's timeline it never would have been possible to charm the kael vendors anyway, since they are level 60 or higher.

It could have been a forward compatibility thing in anticipation of future spells, or it could have been they remained uncharmable because all other merchants were.

There are definitely many potential explanations. Anyone found in era evidence of even a single merchant being charm-able yet?

[DMN]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It could have been a forward compatibility thing in anticipation of future spells, or it could have been they remained uncharmable because all other merchants were.

There are definitely many potential explanations. Anyone found in era evidence of even a single merchant being charm-able yet?

The wording would be quite bizarre if the previous situation was that they were usually uncharmable. They would have no need to even mention that in the patch notes as it would be obvious to anyone. They also tended to write far too little in their patch notes regarding actual changes, making it even stranger to write an entire sentence for something that theoretically would have been always the case.

If we take those patch notes as literally as they would in, say, a court room. It would be shown that the vendors being made uncharmable was itself part of the original AI bug -- hence, that they previously WERE charmable.

[Jimjam]

You're right, they were bad at writing patch messages. After all, their words that 'most' npcs were restored charmable leaves enough wriggle room to not need to mention that the vendors remained uncharmable (and I disagree with your last sentence that the phrase is as conclusive as you believe - remain here could mean 'as they always were').

There is a lot of evidence that corroborates to create the impression that merchants were generally uncharmable, which makes me think it is not a coincidence that there is a complete absence of evidence that any merchant ever got successfully charmed - despite us having evidence in these threads that people did attempt it (unsuccessfully, of course).

I continue to search with hope for evidence of even one mob that got charmed in classic era, just to put the issue to bed. Do are knowledgeable about enchanters, do you have suggestions for mobs I could look up? It would be great to find a classic zam comment that says something along the lines of 'I charm this merchant to make great xp!'

[Telin]

Chanters can charm anything except merchants and certain very high event
NPCs like dragons etc. Hill Giants make good pets. I hink you are mixing it
up with HG's not being able to be mezzed which is the same for all Giants
class other than those in Burning Woods

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....s/6hiEAO6Oz68J

[DMN]

Originally Posted by Telin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....s/6hiEAO6Oz68J

Let me know when enchanters will be charming pets, charming magic immune mobs, and especially charming level 58+ mobs!

[cd288]

I agree with DMN. If anything all we have real evidence of is that in August 2001 merchants were apparently uncharmable. Doesn’t seem like there’s direct enough evidence in the timeline any earlier than that.

[Pringles]

Based on some of this stuff it seems like NPC with quests had these restrictions, probably due to VI not wanting people to cheese them.