ToV and pulling mobs.

[Drakakade]

Eratani, you are missing the big picture here. It is against the rules to purposely train other guilds to get FTE. Detoxx quoted you the relevant raid rules.

Pull up map. See where Aary is located in the center of NToV? Taken pulled that mob to the exit of WToV!! Are you out of your tree?

There is no way you can do that pull without aggroing every mob along the path, thus training 200+ folks in the zone (including yourselves). That's a flagrant violation of the raid rules. You guys managed to wipe 3 or 4 raid forces in ToV with that pull. You definitely wiped Forsaken thus negating their attempt on Aary.

Divinity was armor clearing in WToV and we had no idea what was about to happen. There was no ooc or shout. 40 folks were trained and wiped. After Taken trained Taken , Aary and friend then proceed to move into HoT and wipe anyone there then path back scooping up anyone missed along the way.

And you are arguing about petitioning the paint chips on your train after it rattled over 3 or 4 other guilds? Seriously?!

Edit: What is Taken going to do to make it right?

[Ella`Ella]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm pretty confident that most servers didn't have 6 or more ToV capable guilds simultaneously.

Consolidate.

[Drakakade]

Originally Posted by Detoxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Another day of trying to pull Aaryonar to West ToV. This shit cannot happen anymore, youre entire train comes back and the boss if u wipe and wipes out everyone in its path. If u want to contest mobs, why the fuck arent you in NToV

QFT. Eratani, I am not calling for blood here. I wish you guys would man up, and apologize for your heinous train and be decent citizens.

What every other guild that you wiped yesterday is requesting is for Taken to stop pulling NToV mobs to WToV wiping the zone.

Asgard has suggested a very simple rule: kill mobs in wing they spawn in.

Dead simple. IF you train another guild trying to get FTE then concede the mob, and concede the next mob for 1 hour after spawn time in ooc. The rules are there. Please get on board.

[Erati]

Originally Posted by Drakakade [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Edit: What is Taken going to do to make it right?

I was not around so I absolutely cannot get into specifics that I have no first hand knowledge of, I hope that can be understood because I simply dont have great answers for what happened yesterday besides in general statements about the symptoms of what days like yesterday represent and where our future in ToV is going as a server.

I can promise you this tho - we will hammer into all our pullers where you guys like to farm armor and practice some strats for controlling the trains better as well as making sure all pullers have hotkeys for pulling alerting the zone of danger. Those are not specific 'What does Divinity gonna get to make it right' answers but they are things that will be improved upon in the future when Taken engages in this type of pull.

It was very very sloppy agreed, but I dont think many things thus far have been all that clean in general unless guilds simply decide to not bother. There is no malicious intent with any of this and I feel most of the issue was just adrenaline of pullers trying to accomplish some exciting and fun without thinking about the dynamic game world that surrounds us all and how everything we touch in it COULD affect others.

To me this is the beginning of a bigger scope of talks for this zone - I don't have any candy to appease you for the headache of yesterday.

[Erati]

Originally Posted by Drakakade [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dead simple. IF you train another guild trying to get FTE then concede the mob, and concede the next mob for 1 hour after spawn time in ooc. The rules are there. Please get on board.

I was not there and thusly have no idea ( nor any part ) of why we did or didnt concede after wiping your raid

its very likely that we gave up going for Aary upon hearing about what happened to you guys but since I did not take part, how in the world can I issue a statement about anything I am still learning about.

If indeed we train others during our pull- inhibiting them from having their own ability to engage that was resulting from no error of their own, we most certainly will follow the ToV concession rules and concede for an hour.

I just am operating at a lesser vantage point as I was not present and I am currently the only officer able to type here. Those that were present cant speak in this forum, so I was trying to steer the conversation to something beneficial for all but again it seems no one interested in that and only want us to agree to not pull NTOV to WTOV which to me makes no sense to agree to unless we can come up with an overall better Temple of Veeshan.

[Drakakade]

Fair enough, Eratani. What other rules makes sense to you in TOV?

You can suggest some more if you want, but honestly, there is no way to pull NToV mobs to WToV without having a train ping pong around the zone wiping other folks in zone, and that's a raid violation of the existing rules in place already. Time to stop.

[Erati]

Originally Posted by Drakakade [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Fair enough, Eratani. What other rules makes sense to you in TOV?

You can suggest some more if you want, but honestly, there is no way to pull NToV mobs to WToV without having a train ping pong around the zone wiping other folks in zone, and that's a raid violation of the existing rules in place already. Time to stop.

I would love to see something done along the lines of respecting the guild that gets certain linked drake guards dead first at the time of the named pop they are associated with to get the first crack at attempting the named within a time limit. ( Lord Fishstick pops, first guild to pull and kill one of his guards gets first crack at the second guard ( are there two? ) and then first attempt at the named or til time limit is up whichever happens first...sorry for a nested parenthesis lol. )

Something to that affect - it would go along way with sim repops as well. I am quite a ToV noob in general though so I am not the correct person to analyze each encounter and where you draw the line with an idea like that but the spirit of the idea I think is something that would be good for us all.

[Anichek]

Kill the mob on it's spawn point (or if it paths, in it's pathing line only).

Fixes the problem instantly.


Also, it's unreasonable for a guild to set up shop at a zone out and then not expect to catch hell once in a while. You aren't nailed for zoning a bad pull/adds in KC or CoM. It also wouldn't be an issue if mobs were killed on their spawns.

[Erati]

Originally Posted by Anichek [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Kill the mob on it's spawn point (or if it paths, in it's pathing line only).

Fixes the problem instantly.


Also, it's unreasonable for a guild to set up shop at a zone out and then not expect to catch hell once in a while. You aren't nailed for zoning a bad pull/adds in KC or CoM. It also wouldn't be an issue if mobs were killed on their spawns.

I dont mind we are 'catching hell' - I just dont see the alternative being that great of a solution for all the ToV raiding guilds- that is my point.

When we are in the wrong, we are in the wrong and USUALLY admit it / walk away.

Again, I was not there so I continue cannot fully dive into what happened yesterday with what did or did not happen.

[Anichek]

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I dont mind we are 'catching hell' - I just dont see the alternative being that great of a solution for all the ToV raiding guilds- that is my point.

When we are in the wrong, we are in the wrong and USUALLY admit it / walk away.

Again, I was not there so I continue cannot fully dive into what happened yesterday with what did or did not happen.

Eratani, I'm not placing a blame on anyone. BDA had a bump with Divinity as well once in ToV.

I'm saying instead of some huge, pain in the ass set of raid rules for ToV, make ToV mobs be killed in their wing, on their spawns/pathing nodes.

Also, I'm saying, guilds should stop crying wolf when they are positioned at the only zone out available to melee, and something goes awry and they have to zone out. If a guild sets up at zone out, they need to anticipate that there COULD be stuff dragged there in an escape attempt. We expect it in normal XP zones, and it's the risk you take setting up shop there.

If mobs were killed in their wings, on their spawns/pathing nodes - then a guild setting up at zone out only has a concern when a guild is giving up on the raid mob and trying to zone out to stay alive and avoid a 100% raid CR. It becomes a non-issue, because they choose to set up there and thereby acknowledge and accept the risks of being set up in that spot in the zone.

I do agree that pulls need to be cleaner. The train and split method causes a shit ton of disruption to zones, and ToV amplifies that situation a ton when pulls bridge wings.