ToV and pulling mobs.

[bktroost]

Also, it may be worth noting that I have no skin in this past week's train game and should not in any way be seen as "out for blood." I gain nothing by Taken or anyone else specifically being suspended, etc.

However, it is not for lack of power that I avoid that scene, it is lack of desire. Our allied force pulls 70 high level people to Vindi regularly and had just as much force at this past weekend's CT that we just raced for and won. My abstinence from NToV is based entirely on my disapproval of the status of raiding there.

[Detoxx]

WTB perma rooted mobs.

Are we going to work on some sort of agreement here, Rampage hasn't chimed in and we need their input as well.

[Erati]

Both situations have problems - we just have not experienced what it feels like to have everyone consolidated in one designated spot yet...

We are bouncing around ideas for this week, we might be joining the poopsock stairs this round who knows - but in general limiting the ability to pull the mobs out of the wings hinders nearly as many things as it helps.

Pulls need to be more responsible agreed, and we are addressing those things internally to be more prepared. This is still very very new to many people, no one logged in as an EQ pro without some bumps along the way.

Still open to proposals of sensible rules that everyone can agree to follow to make all encounters better however, feel free to spit ball some out there.

[bktroost]

As we consider new ideas, please just keep a firm eye on the current rule sets as written law and not a suggestion. Training a congested area is never, under any circumstance, an acceptable tactic. With so few safe locations in North to do this with it seems a really neat challenge to try and find a different way.

You know there are a lot of cubby areas with dragons that have no LoS issues to the main training ledges that would facilitate an entire raid force. For instance if you were to clear and set up in Lord Kriezan's area and say another guild set up in Feshlak, etc. You could have someone pull, say Lady Nev to one or the other area and train mobs away and you could solo pull her out. If the guild in Feshlak got FTE then we'd be safe in Kriezan or vice versa.

It wouldn't be as simple as VP is, log in at pad, get FTE or don't and watch enemy train themselves or win at ramp. You would have to clear to a safe to kill area or have your raid camped out there and log in and clear the drakes in that location in advance (some of the drakes have a 2 day timer and others a 72 hour, so it's not that bad if you are actively tracking that mob).

All I'm saying is that if we think creatively we can come up with something that works to prevent training each other and makes the zone livable again.

[Erati]

^ somebody did some exploring last night [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Drakakade]

Aye, open to suggestions. I would like to point out that atm the best representatives of guild behavior are the old "C" class guilds. Rampage in particular have been the only guild I have seen concede mobs without a lot of theatrics when they made a mistake.

Detoxx pushing for some reasonable solutions too.

Maybe that is because those 2 guilds had so much experience with VP trains? And been down the fraps / petition quest wars? An eye for an eye making the whole world blind thing. It doesn't do anyone any good to involve GMs.

In any case, I believe a logical first step is to confirm no pulling dragons out of their wing. Yes, it makes it harder (assuming no rotation or engage order or something reasonable /laughs and wipes away a tear), because you need to clear parts of a wing or camp out when the other guild engaging etc etc.

One thing we knew pre-Velious when I put up a post asking for us to iron out some of these things before release was having 6+ raid capable guilds in ToV was going to be a pita. Trains and trying to determine whose train wiped whom is part of it even.

ToV is a small zone and we need to work together to come up with some reasonable rules. AND folks need to self-police.

[Pint]

I'd point out that when multiple guilds go for trak no guild sets up behind the mtn and pulls trak over those other guilds. In hate you are told not to pull the zi when other guilds are present bc you can't run him and a train over those other guilds. None of this is new, none of these problems you guys are creating are velious or tov specific issues, you're all just pushing your luck bc nobody is stepping up to stop you.

[Erati]

Taken isn't going into the Temple of Veeshan and saying to ourselves "How can we screw everyone out of mobs and make things a big mess"

We have been parking at WTOV bc its simple to herd our cats to that point without endangering others - when NTOV mobs pop and we are in West we log in and try for them.

Will we pull Aaryonar to WTOV again like last week - ehhhh prob not. I dont understand why everyone is rushing to finalize and hard code rules for this stuff - you realize once these are rooted we will have no choice right... once we agree to something that prevents pulling out of the wings it will be impossible to revert that if other issues arise.

We will be putting bandaid after bandaid on our rules bc we were not patient to flesh out some reasonable engage guidelines

So to play Devil's Advocate- we have everyone in NTOV for the NTOV pops - great - how we will prevent leap frogging or how we will properly concede mobs bc 1 hour wont cut it if you are trained while on top of the other force who simply camps out with a stop watch going

It takes around an hour to recover fully from a major Velious wipe and be rebuffed/ready- thats simply talking about being ready to pull, not engaging the mob or splitting it back out or clearing trash to pull etc

[Pint]

It has been proven multiple times over that ppl in wtov are in fact endangering other ppl in the zone, that's not an opinion, it is a hard fact.

You're avoiding ruling on cross wing pulls bc you somehow think that training the guilds in north while you're in west is better than training the guilds in north while you're in north? What? Leapfrogging is part of eq, it happens all the time at naggy, innoruuk, cazic thule, vox and even the kunark dragons. Again these "problems" are not new and they did not crop up with velious. Ppl can drum up whatever rules they want and I'm game to hear them out but right here in the immediate future, no cross wing pulling is a very simple solution to what is currently the biggest issue regarding training other raids in tov.

If it takes you more than an hour to CR in tov then your guild has bigger issues than where to pull the mob and whether or not you get leapfrogged. It takes about ~10 minutes to get a raid force up and running again in tov UNLESS you are being repeatedly trained during your CR by guilds in another wing (an issue that has been happening weekly).

[arsenalpow]

Keeping targets within each wing along with only a finite number of safe spots will create a raid scene so absurd that no one will win. It will be leapfrogs and trains and accusations of impropriety and all kinds of underhanded shit.