worst class in classic

[Neno]

I don't know if there is an overall worst class. I think how valuable a class is to a group can change depending on things like location, goal, and group makeup. Groups in EQ can be so malleable so having a class that can do 1 role but also cover other duties is really nice if suddenly group make up changes. Not every player is created equal as well. I'd take a sub optimal class piloted by an experienced player over a "better" class piloted by an inexperienced player.

I'm never too worried about things like exp penalties. Hybrids almost always make the group better in multiple ways. If my group will be more secure and can survive a particular class leaving then I'll always take the hybrid as it nets me way more xp in the long run. Like a ranger can dps, pull, buff, root, snare, invis, track and tank in a pinch. That is a ton of utility. If my monk/bard puller would leave and my only options for a replacement are a mage or necro my ranger can switch to pulling. If I have druid healer that leaves and I need snare I can replace them with whatever as the ranger can do it. There are situations where maybe rangers don't shine and/or are too redundant but thats OK.

There probably is one singular group makeup that is across the board superior in all situations. I enjoy those kinds of metas but it just isn't always a given that you will have X, Y, and Z when putting together a group or looking for replacements.

[magnetaress]

Originally Posted by Neno [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't know if there is an overall worst class. I think how valuable a class is to a group can change depending on things like location, goal, and group makeup. Groups in EQ can be so malleable so having a class that can do 1 role but also cover other duties is really nice if suddenly group make up changes. Not every player is created equal as well. I'd take a sub optimal class piloted by an experienced player over a "better" class piloted by an inexperienced player.

I'm never too worried about things like exp penalties. Hybrids almost always make the group better in multiple ways. If my group will be more secure and can survive a particular class leaving then I'll always take the hybrid as it nets me way more xp in the long run. Like a ranger can dps, pull, buff, root, snare, invis, track and tank in a pinch. That is a ton of utility. If my monk/bard puller would leave and my only options for a replacement are a mage or necro my ranger can switch to pulling. If I have druid healer that leaves and I need snare I can replace them with whatever as the ranger can do it. There are situations where maybe rangers don't shine and/or are too redundant but thats OK.

There probably is one singular group makeup that is across the board superior in all situations. I enjoy those kinds of metas but it just isn't always a given that you will have X, Y, and Z when putting together a group or looking for replacements.

The best group will always be an enchanter and druid duo probably other than that, ya, its all situational IMO. Everything else is a bonus. I find that full groups level slow but if not in a rush to get lvl 60 it really doesn't matter. I want people in my group who I can chat with and have a good time with. Even if it takes 19 hrs to ding. vs 8.

[twitchthroe]

Originally Posted by magnetaress [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I want people in my group who I can chat with and have a good time with. Even if it takes 19 hrs to ding. vs 8.

Touching cloth seems to be a feature of most mmos I played. Not so much in EQ. I wonder if extended turtle heads are expected at higher levels but as of now, it's no problem. Just afk and feed the french, take your time and savor it. Nobody cares.

[kaluppo]

Originally Posted by valenwood [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only "niche" that druids seem to fill as a healer that's substantial is having an "outdoor shrink". Other than that, they seem to be the "Wizards of the Healers", always Oom, and rarely being able to contribute in a very powerful way. They sit in the back, and hope no one calls on them to be the main healer.

I'm shocked at your ignorance on the Druid class considering how old this game is. But let me educate you with thirteen ways your assessment is incorrect.

1). Harmony. This along with sow/wolfform this actually makes druids an ideal puller or assistant to the puller. Harmony is low mana and it can't be resisted.

2). Damage Shield. Unless there is a mage in the group, I always keep DS on the tank whether I am healer or DPS. It's low mana and the damage adds up.

3). Regeneration. This is highly underrated. It only costs 100 mana and I love it for the non-tanks who take a little damage here and there. Keeps the healer from having to cast larger mana heals on multiple players making their mana last longer.

4). Snare. Very low mana and it can keep your mob from aggroing adds when low health. For groups with minimal DPS this can be very useful.

5). Fire/ICE based nukes. These do considerable DPS for the mana spent. In a good group I can keep DS on the tank and nuke once per fight without ever getting below 50M. Add a chanter with clarity and I can nuke 2-3 times per fight. Right now at CE entrance, my fire nuke does about 20% of mobs health. I nuke twice then I did 40% of the kill + DS damage.

6). Swarm DOT. Mostly this is a solo spell. But the magic based swarm DOT is extremely mana friendly and highly effective against higher level mobs that the group may take longer to kill. This spell is also never resisted by anything non-red. When I know the puller grabbed a mob that takes awhile to kill then I will throw the dot on to get more damage done for less mana.

7). SOW/share wolf form. Speaks for itself.

8). Heals. You can never beat a cleric but you can come close. From level 1-28 the Druid can heal nearly as good as a cleric. From 29-34 the Cleric, Druid and Shaman all have the same greater healing spell as their best. 34+ the Clerics run away with it but the Druid can fill in nicely in a pinch. Not to mention having a backup healer in a group can be huge when two members are getting beat on or the Cleric is taking aggro. When main healing I can manage my mana very efficiently as long as we have a good puller and tank. In other words, If I only have to heal one player most of the time then there is no issue with premature 00m. If however, the puller, tank and chanter are all taking damage on every pull then sure mana will be a problem. That's certainly not the Druids fault.

9). Evac/ports. I can't tell you how many times I saved an entire CE entrance group from wiping on a bad pull. The ones who can gate back do so and I can go get the rest so they can make the relatively short run from Steamfont druid rings. Not to mention all the times a replacement has been found for someone who needs a ride.

10). Skin/STR/MR buffs. This is the least useful but when you are encumbered the STR buff is a lifesaver. When the Cleric is LOM or non-existent the Skin buff is awesome for the tank, puller and chanter in the group. Magic resist is also nice to have on for a low mana buff when pulling caster mobs.

11). Levitate/enduring breath. There are zones where this is huge even in a group setting.

12). Whirling wind. Low level, low mana nuke with a stun to interrupt caster mobs. This was huge when fighting at orc highway whenever they pulled an orc priest.

13). Root. Druids have a great root line which lasts 1.6 minutes and does a little damage on impact. It's also low mana to cast so it makes it great for groups with a tank who can't keep aggro or just as CC for that pesky add when the group lacks a chanter or bard.

[Gatorsmash]

Originally Posted by kaluppo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm shocked at your ignorance on the Druid class considering how old this game is. But let me educate you with thirteen ways your assessment is incorrect.

1). Harmony. This along with sow/wolfform this actually makes druids an ideal puller or assistant to the puller. Harmony is low mana and it can't be resisted.

2). Damage Shield. Unless there is a mage in the group, I always keep DS on the tank whether I am healer or DPS. It's low mana and the damage adds up.

3). Regeneration. This is highly underrated. It only costs 100 mana and I love it for the non-tanks who take a little damage here and there. Keeps the healer from having to cast larger mana heals on multiple players making their mana last longer.

4). Snare. Very low mana and it can keep your mob from aggroing adds when low health. For groups with minimal DPS this can be very useful.

5). Fire/ICE based nukes. These do considerable DPS for the mana spent. In a good group I can keep DS on the tank and nuke once per fight without ever getting below 50M. Add a chanter with clarity and I can nuke 2-3 times per fight. Right now at CE entrance, my fire nuke does about 20% of mobs health. I nuke twice then I did 40% of the kill + DS damage.

6). Swarm DOT. Mostly this is a solo spell. But the magic based swarm DOT is extremely mana friendly and highly effective against higher level mobs that the group may take longer to kill. This spell is also never resisted by anything non-red. When I know the puller grabbed a mob that takes awhile to kill then I will throw the dot on to get more damage done for less mana.

7). SOW/share wolf form. Speaks for itself.

8). Heals. You can never beat a cleric but you can come close. From level 1-28 the Druid can heal nearly as good as a cleric. From 29-34 the Cleric, Druid and Shaman all have the same greater healing spell as their best. 34+ the Clerics run away with it but the Druid can fill in nicely in a pinch. Not to mention having a backup healer in a group can be huge when two members are getting beat on or the Cleric is taking aggro. When main healing I can manage my mana very efficiently as long as we have a good puller and tank. In other words, If I only have to heal one player most of the time then there is no issue with premature 00m. If however, the puller, tank and chanter are all taking damage on every pull then sure mana will be a problem. That's certainly not the Druids fault.

9). Evac/ports. I can't tell you how many times I saved an entire CE entrance group from wiping on a bad pull. The ones who can gate back do so and I can go get the rest so they can make the relatively short run from Steamfont druid rings. Not to mention all the times a replacement has been found for someone who needs a ride.

10). Skin/STR/MR buffs. This is the least useful but when you are encumbered the STR buff is a lifesaver. When the Cleric is LOM or non-existent the Skin buff is awesome for the tank, puller and chanter in the group. Magic resist is also nice to have on for a low mana buff when pulling caster mobs.

11). Levitate/enduring breath. There are zones where this is huge even in a group setting.

12). Whirling wind. Low level, low mana nuke with a stun to interrupt caster mobs. This was huge when fighting at orc highway whenever they pulled an orc priest.

13). Root. Druids have a great root line which lasts 1.6 minutes and does a little damage on impact. It's also low mana to cast so it makes it great for groups with a tank who can't keep aggro or just as CC for that pesky add when the group lacks a chanter or bard.

That's a great write up, the only thing I heavily disagree is the healing.

It's not what they get (heal spell) it's when. Having recently lvled a cleric, getting that level appropriate heal spell is so dramatically different than my shaman. Even with slow pre 34 it's just comparable

[Gatorsmash]

Just **isn't comparable


God damn phone auto correct

[kaluppo]

Originally Posted by Gatorsmash [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's a great write up, the only thing I heavily disagree is the healing.

It's not what they get (heal spell) it's when. Having recently lvled a cleric, getting that level appropriate heal spell is so dramatically different than my shaman. Even with slow pre 34 it's just comparable

I also have leveled a cleric (multiple times). The Cleric does gets the healing upgrade sooner. But there are also multiple times when all three classes have the same exact main healing spell. From lvl 5-9, 14-19 and 24-29 the cleric has a better heal than the Druid/Shaman. But....

Lvl 1-5 all priest classes have minor healing. Lvl 9-14 all priest classes have light healing. Lvl 19 to 24 all priest classes have healing. lvl 29-34 all priest classes have greater healing.

So from 1-34 there are more levels that the priest classes are equal then are unequal. Where the Cleric really shines is 34+ and the fact they use less mana per heal due to the efficiency bonus or whatever you want to call it. I'm not saying the Druid/Shaman can heal as well as a cleric but for several levels 1-34 it is pretty close.

[magnetaress]

druids are OK healers, if a group sux so bad it cant get healed by a druid IDK wat to say, basically a druid can keep an MT and puller up np and is fine when everyone is doing their job at not getting hit to much

[Qaldar]

Originally Posted by Gatorsmash [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Warriors will and have always out damaged paladin-SK's. And your stun "fact" fails to mention the resist check modifier since your casting a lvl 34 spell at 50.

Like I said, paladin players are fucking delusional about the class.

Warriors may out damage a paladin, but their groups also take a considerable amount of damage over a paladin’s. In Sakuragi’s warrior guide, he recaps a tale of three spore king groups in Kunark. The warrior took twice as much damage as the paladin, and the paladin’s group also took 20% less damage amongst members. Higher damage taken translates to downtime, even if the warrior’s group is killing an individual mob slightly faster than the paladin.

Paladins are the best group tank in the game. Stuns should be chained and are absolutely sick for reducing melee damage, locking down caster damage completely with three interrupts, and for controlling charmed pets (charm pets are where the real dps lies anyways).

In duos and trios, a paladin is also the clear choice due to being able to root adds and their ability to strengthen and increase survivability of their partners. Other tanks cannot effectively duo with an enchanter for example.

PS Stun lands on most PoF mobs, but the main point here is the paladin’s strength in group content. You’ve probably only grouped with bad paladins or were terrible yourself when you tried one.

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by Gatorsmash [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Warriors will and have always out damaged paladin-SK's. And your stun "fact" fails to mention the resist check modifier since your casting a lvl 34 spell at 50.

Like I said, paladin players are fucking delusional about the class.

Well at that level stuns are equal in importance for consistent on-demand aggro at a distance, especially when needing to keep Enchanters/Druids/Necromancers alive during charm breaks; considering those are the true DPS classes, I would say that alone makes knights worth a damn on raids and in groups, where it applies at least. Also, wouldn't a resisted stun translate into more aggro? So your argument actually favors the class more given their traditional role, even though the damage mitigation of an unresisted stun would be preferred. Yes, other classes have stuns and AE stuns, but those stuns typically won't take priority over their other spells or even spell slots, and those classes won't survive long against a hasted torched pet. Plus, if one of those classes attempt to CC that pet and dies, it could easily lead to the group/raid wiping. If PAL/SHD dies, it's no big deal.

That's why they're used in other niche areas of the game as well; pure classes have more to offer physically, if not magically, depending on the target(s). Protecting CC on spiroc island and training bees away. Low numbers Plate House cycles. Fear/Hate break-ins. Ring Wars. All of these scenarios have multiple targets/waves and/or limited space.

It is odd that the original devs gave the best versions of Flowing Thought to priests and purecasters (especially those that already had ways of regenerating mana themselves), when PAL/SHD could have benefited more, closing the gap between OP classes and them. With smaller mana pools and no ability to specialize in any type of magic, higher mana regen would have given PAL/SHD more support raid significance where the previous definitive role (as tank) no longer applied considering that weren't given worthwhile disciplines to increase damage output or avoidance.

Outside a group setting, both knights compete for the title of "worst" in classic and trilogy, at least in min/max terms where you must be able to do one thing and do it very well. Knights needed to be made into more of what they already were, multifaceted, much in the way that Bards are the hybrids of all hybrids.

If your spell book won't ever include bind/gate, evac/ports, slow/haste, mana regen, mez/atone, sow/selos, charm, or even a summoned pet that can withstand damage. If your skill table won't ever translate into burst or sustained DPS on raids. You might be playing one of the worst classes. But by that same logic, if your MMORPG won't let you do all of these things on the same character, some would argue that you're playing one of the worst games.