Enchanter Epic piece from Hate

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by PatChapp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I spend a fair bit of time in chardok,seb. Often times the zones are empty, if groups want camps there's lots not being taken by solo enchanters.

This is from the guy that use to bitch about raiding while his guild tried and he was farming geos. Hope that helps. Loramin just likes to bitch.

[Optti]

so your argument is that creators of everquest made enchanters, with a charm spell, but they never intended the charm spell to be used to charm mobs and make them fight eachother for the player's gain?

[Toxigen]

Originally Posted by Optti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

so your argument is that creators of everquest made enchanters, with a charm spell, but they never intended the charm spell to be used to charm mobs and make them fight eachother for the player's gain?

not only that but charm is LE BAD because peoples internet connections and understanding of game mechanics are far better than in 99/00

[Optti]

it sounds like this guy, loramin, wants to control people reallllllly badly and sites old questionable documents to instill doubt and create confusion...

why is his picture of a rat?

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is from the guy that use to bitch about raiding while his guild tried and he was farming geos. Hope that helps. Loramin just likes to bitch.

Huh?

Originally Posted by Optti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

so your argument is that creators of everquest made enchanters, with a charm spell, but they never intended the charm spell to be used to charm mobs and make them fight eachother for the player's gain?

No, my argument is that charming wasn't nearly as safe (for all classes, not just Enchanters) back in '99-'01 as it is on P99 today. And if you simply read old pages about EQ on the Wayback machine, you'll see a wealth of evidence suggesting as much: everyone thought of Enchanters as a grouping class, for instance.

[Optti]

so peoples perceptions of charming were that it was very unsafe / not viable in 99 and now, in 2023 people feel safer charming

why would the gameplay ever be the same in year one of a game versus year 24 of a game?

[Infectious]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Huh?



No, my argument is that charming wasn't nearly as safe (for all classes, not just Enchanters) back in '99-'01 as it is on P99 today. And if you simply read old pages about EQ on the Wayback machine, you'll see a wealth of evidence suggesting as much: everyone thought of Enchanters as a grouping class, for instance.

So should rogean throttle peoples internet or something?

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Optti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

so peoples perceptions of charming were that it was very unsafe / not viable in 99 and now, in 2023 people feel safer charming

why would the gameplay ever be the same in year one of a game versus year 24 of a game?

It had nothing to do with perceptions: the game was how it was, and it had more than 10x the number of players as P99. All those people didn't just ignore a spell on their spell list because they were dumb or had false perceptions.

If charming was as awesome as it is here, Enchanters back then would have (for instance) charmed in groups. But they didn't, and you can see as much in old forum posts. It wasn't because of stupidity, it was because charming was too risky.

It's just like with binding wounds in combat. People here kept patting themselves on the back for how smart they were doing something people in '99 were too dumb to do ... until it was proven that it was impossible in '99, and the problem was that our emulator wasn't emulating properly.

Originally Posted by Infectious [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So should rogean throttle peoples internet or something?

We have the AoE limit don't we? Are you arguing we shouldn't have it?

But, as I've said before, we don't need some special meta rule to make the server more classic. We just need to make the emulator itself more accurate, and there are already tickets (with solid evidence) in the bug forums explaining how to do that.

[Optti]

have you ever tried to charm with low charisma?

have you ever tried to level an enchanter solo by charming?

remember back in the day when zones were so camped people would sit at a spawn of like only 3 mobs with their group?

You don't think that the game being around for this long with this many empty servers and people having this much time on their hands could have potentially evolved the gameplay?

Like gamers are the same skill level now that they were in 99 when the game was that new?

My point is that there are so many reasons for the situation you describe other than coding

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Optti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

have you ever tried to charm with low charisma?

have you ever tried to level an enchanter solo by charming?

I've leveled a Druid to 60 here (mostly by charming), and an Enchanter 20 or so (with no Charisma gear). I'm saving Enchanter as a future main class ... if/when P99 ever gets the classic version [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I had Enchanter friends on live, and I truly want to play the class they played.

But really, my personal experience is irrelevant: what's relevant is that if you read classic sources (or remember playing in the classic era) the P99 Enchanter's role has completely changed, while no other class's has.

Originally Posted by Optti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

remember back in the day when zones were so camped people would sit at a spawn of like only 3 mobs with their group?

I got a late start on live, so I missed that initial period (although I did watch a friend play, and he pretty much exclusively soloed even early on).

More to the point, Druids soloed in classic. Necromancers soloed in classic. Mages soloed in classic. Soloing absolutely happened, and there were known "soloing" classes, just as there were "grouping" classes. Enchanters were the latter.

Here on P99, Druids/Necros/Mages still solo. Warriors/Hybrids/Clerics still group. Enchanter is the only class that's changed its role (from primarily grouping to primarily soloing).

Originally Posted by Optti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You don't think that the game being around for this long with this many empty servers and people having this much time on their hands could have potentially evolved the gameplay?

Like gamers are the same skill level now that they were in 99 when the game was that new?

Oh, 100%! I'm not saying modern discoveries and internet connections aren't a factor: they certainly are.

But ... they don't change fundamental aspects of the game. And again, in classic charming was risky enough that (even if you had a good connection, which many did) most Enchanters still grouped.

If our goal here is to recreate that game, then we'll never put the connection/knowledge genie back in the bottle ... but we absolutely should pay attention to the mechanics which aren't classic (like the bugs I mentioned earlier).