Ogre is a Noob Trap

[ya.dingus]

We now have definitive proof that going over 200 of any stat has a very large diminishing return (nearly a 1% difference in actual output for any given stat).

In light of this, if you plan to play and gear your character in any kind of velious gear, you are overstating your character tremendously in where it matters (str, stamina), and losing an egregious amount of points in other areas (dex, wis, int).

In kunark it may have made sense to play an ogre because you could not reach these caps, but if you roll an ogre today, in velious, and gear them at all, you're left with a demonstrable weaker character than anyone who roles a any other race class combo that ogres possess.

And no, FSI does not make up for a nearly 45-50% overstating issue in the gear that's currently available in game.

In short, Ogre is a noob trap.

[Toxigen]

no u

[Vivitron]

Sta clearly gives full returns up to 255. Str probably does too.

[ya.dingus]

Originally Posted by Vivitron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sta clearly gives full returns up to 255. Str probably does too.

They dont. It's all diminishing.


https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=414966

I noticed something interesting today. It seems that in addition to the weapon damage caps that unlock as you level up, there is also just a maximum damage cap that you cannot go above (similar to pets).

With a 20 damage weapon, my damage is always capped at 84, with 255 STR, Avatar, and 200 offense.

With a 18 damage weapon, my damage is always capped at 76, with 255 STR, Avatar, and 200 offense.

With a 15 damage weapon, my damage is always capped at 63, with 255 STR, Avatar, and 200 offense.

When my strength is 200 and my offense is 200 (no Avatar), I do 80 damage with a 20 damage weapon. This matches the formula Weapon Damage * (([Offense Skill] + [STR]) / 100), and Shamans don't get any damage bonuses.

If there wasn't a damage cap, I should be doing at least 90 damage with 255 STR, and more with Avatar.

This means the maximum damage cap for 60 Shamans is 4.2 Damage per 1 Weapon Damage.

[Toxigen]

sounds like you're the noob trap

[Philistine]

I feel like the ease with which stats are capped is a little overstated on the forums sometimes. It takes pretty much BIS to straight-up cap STR, STA, DEX for non-largr races.

This doesn't mean I regret my non-large race choice for my warrior main, but he's got decent stuff and still isn't close to 255 STA; in fact, until recently I had to be careful not to drop below 205 STA.

[Vivitron]

Originally Posted by ya.dingus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They dont. It's all diminishing.


https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=414966

For sta it's trivial to get a sta buff and watch your hp; you get full returns up to 255 hard cap.

For str it's murkier. We don't know what p99 does internally but if you follow that thread you'll see the max hits match what you'd get from eqemu's code (except a bug of sk/pally/bard being on the wrong damage table on p99). We don't know what p99 does internally, but we can use the matching max hits to guess that it might follow the same formula as eqemu.

Eqemu uses str by adding weapon skill + (str-75)*2/3 + atk into one variable. It then uses that variable to both roll against the targets mitigation to see what your base weapon damage is multiplied by in the range of 0.1 to 2; no apparent diminishing returns for that use. Second it often rolls for a bonus multiplier -- that multiplier is capped -- you still roll your full number but if you roll above the max the value is clamped to the max. That arguably is diminishing returns.

A 60 melee would hit those diminishing returns with 255 str when their atk+weapon skill exceeds 315. So, if it's like eqemu one of the two returns diminishes, but it is as much a +atk diminishing return as +str and doesn't have anything to do with the 200 str line.

[Jimjam]

1) You want to be overcap for buffer from cripple/incapacitate.
2) ogres have a huge pool of str/sta in addition to their other stats. Its not like all races have an equal str sta dex agi sum.
3) still doesn’t really matter, all races are sufficiently capable. Level then gear are most important factors.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by ya.dingus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They dont. It's all diminishing.


https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=414966

I haven't seen anything that shows STR has diminishing returns for melee classes over 200. The quote of mine you shared was talking about max damage. Priest classes have a lower max damage cap than melee classes. So far it looks like Melee max damage is something like 6 damage per 1 weapon damage, compared to a Shaman's 4 damage per 1 weapon damage.

Even when you hit the max damage for your class, having higher ATK/STR increases your chances of hitting for max damage.

The reason why Trolls/Ogres are generally the best races for the classes they can pick is because Regeneration/FSI and Slam is going to be a bigger boost than a few stat points. AGI is basically a dead stat, DEX can be capped by any race, and while CHA is useful for Divine Intervention, no guild is requiring a Warrior to be a race with higher base CHA to increase Divine Intervention chances. This is why medium/small races don't really have enough of an advantage to be considered better. It would be a different story if AGI was actually a good stat, then it may be a slightly more complex scenario. Gnome Warrior and maybe Halfling Warrior can be argued to be better in specific cases, but not because of stats. Gnome Warriors are going to solo better with the 40% spell haste from Clockwork Arms, and Halflings can sneak through raid zones like VP.

[Toxigen]

*snaps suspenders, adjusts monocle*