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  #51  
Old 05-31-2011, 04:30 PM
Aadill Aadill is offline
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Originally Posted by Susanbanthony [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Keep the variance, just make it a full repop every time. Everything dies in a couple hours on full repops anyways, so the 7 day spawns with a +/- 2 day variance all end up in the same window anyway.

Just make the full repop a variance with +/- 1 or 2 days... there's still the unknown but it also forces guilds to prioritize and gives other guilds a shot at raid targets that aren't highly prioritized by the upper tier guilds while also having the element of needing to race to targets.
Best idea yet.
  #52  
Old 05-31-2011, 04:33 PM
Skope Skope is offline
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Originally Posted by Aadill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Best idea yet.
No, because it doesnt do anything for vox, naggy, gore, sev. Maybe naggy, but repopping FGs is stupid. Furthermore, it doesn't address FTE, FFA, poopsock or what have you. Not to mention, how the hell is this gonna play in velious?

Throw variance in the toilet, let the babies work it out amongst themselves within actual classic EQ mechanics.
  #53  
Old 05-31-2011, 04:38 PM
Susanbanthony Susanbanthony is offline
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It works for the dragons... why not?

Only do it for mobs with multiple day spawns (except perhaps Draco and Maestro). FG's and the like can stay at 12, 8, or 2 hours.

Velious is a different story, I'll give you that.
  #54  
Old 05-31-2011, 04:40 PM
Nedala Nedala is offline
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Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Nedala, are you fucking kidding me?

That's EXACTLY the way it worked on live. people KNEW when things would pop and they'd get there beforehand. If there were no variance here there would have to be new rules or no rules at all, and either one i'm completely okay with. FFS, that's why you GOT rotation, FFA, FTE, and all the other crazy shit people came up with. There WERE massive clusterfucks. I can actually remember rolling a /random to see who got the first shot at a particular target. Never, and i repeat, never was there any server or moment in EQ history where people waited for a target with a variance. Ever.
Are you fucking kidding me? We had poopsocking ON THIS SERVER; even when the variance was in, when we had the "first 15 people in zone rule" are you actually believing there wouldnt be massive poopsocking with a variance on this server? This is not live, there are way more raiding guilds. We had poopsocking with variance it would be awful without one. The rules like we have right now are good. And if classic raid experience actually means you have to camp a raid target for hours (days) to get a chance to kill them, then im happy we dont have classic raiding experience here.
  #55  
Old 05-31-2011, 04:46 PM
Skope Skope is offline
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Nedala, if you're gonna be pulling shit out of your ass you may start with some common sense.

I never said poopsocking was the next alternative, in fact you did. Poopsock was there because the first group of 15+ in a zone got claim to a target. If you get rid of variance you wouldn't have that. Sat in the zone for 4 days to get innoruuk? tough shit, here's 20 people who are gonna engage him first that got here 5 minutes ago because they knew when he was going to spawn. Variance came in to discourage poopsocking because people thought nobody would actually poopsock. Well... they did anyway.

Want to cure poopsock with no variance? Make it rotation, make it FFA, make it FTE, make it /random between the guilds there. All of these imply no poopsock.
  #56  
Old 05-31-2011, 04:46 PM
Dc2mitchell Dc2mitchell is offline
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Originally Posted by Voradan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Although this is more or less me just tossing a little more fuel to the fire of a heated debate.. I have all was have been a bit of a pyro..

I know Quellious had a raid rotation between the raid guilds. It was a community effort like people are saying. The raiding guilds of Quellious got tired of fighting over certain raid content I would like to say it was mostly dungeon based things like VP and NToV (which is not in game yet), but things like Trak(for example) was first come first served. Keep in mind if a force started getting mobilized and was there right in front of Trak (again for example) most guilds would let them be.

I guess the biggest point I am trying to make is that other servers on the SOE servers did do rotations to a degree.

Hrmm I think I might of just added to the mess.. oh well heh
I was on Quellious as well, it worked wonders and lots had a chance at loot who otherwise would not even be able to look at the mobs. Seems to me the ones most bothered by a rotation, are the ones who feel everything is theirs which are usually the most powerful guilds with much time on their hands.. MINE! I agree with competition, but monopoly as a whole different ball of wax.

School yard mentality isnt what this game was based on and why it did so well. It was the interaction with others with like minded goals within the game. The ones that play 40+ hours a week are [B]usually[B] the same people that are stating that it should be first come first serve. The same people are stating that type of competition was what made the game. In fact, the game was made by the lesser guilds, which were the majority.

With that in mind, how long would the game actually last when you make it more difficult for the lesser guilds to actually enjoy high end content? Higher tier guilds wouldnt have a minor league to pluck from when someone is on hiatus. The higher end guild would nonetheless be on an empty server.

Lets regulate it with a flagging system... higher end blow through it... Aww shucks we lost people... now backflag.... game dies.

If everyone gets a shot, the above doesnt happen nor does it need to be implemented.

I have been on both ends of the spectrum. High end raiding guild that demanded alot of time. Medium casual guild that got its chances only when we worked with others in order to take a shot at bosses.

I spent more time with the raid guild than the casual and I would have killed for the comaraderie of my original guild. By the time I got what I wanted, the original guild had been absorbed by others. I know many of them felt the same way.

All in the name of pixel loot.

My 2 cents...
  #57  
Old 05-31-2011, 05:31 PM
Kika Maslyaka Kika Maslyaka is offline
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ah the endless debate about "fairness" of raiding vs "competition" [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I see only 3 options here:

1. Classic static respawns. Just how it was, with all the drama, player arranged rotations (which end up only observed by SOME of the guilds, since its impossible to force in anyway), prime-time drama and wide range cockblocking

2. Instancing - everyone gets their own sandbox. You ALWAYS get your kills, you ALWAYS get any gear you want.. And you virtually will NEVER hear about any other guild ever again, or that there even maybe other people outside of your guild....
Solves the drama problem permanently, but totally undermines a concept of massive multiplayer world...

3. Variance spawns... While not classic, it at least gives you SOME chance at getting a target you want, albeit somewhat RANDOM at times, and keeps a fair amount of competition

Don't really see any options beyond these. Chose your poison
  #58  
Old 05-31-2011, 05:40 PM
Lazortag Lazortag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Susanbanthony [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Keep the variance, just make it a full repop every time. Everything dies in a couple hours on full repops anyways, so the 7 day spawns with a +/- 2 day variance all end up in the same window anyway.

Just make the full repop a variance with +/- 1 or 2 days... there's still the unknown but it also forces guilds to prioritize and gives other guilds a shot at raid targets that aren't highly prioritized by the upper tier guilds while also having the element of needing to race to targets.
I like this idea but it's not clear when the windows would open for the next batch of repops. Would it be after the last boss is killed? Also isn't it a bit unfair that you only need to track naggy (for example) to know if Trak is up? Basically if one raid mob spawns you know the others have all spawned so you only need to track one. It doesn't seem as meritocratic as the current system.
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  #59  
Old 05-31-2011, 06:02 PM
Lelroni Lelroni is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedala [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Are you fucking kidding me? We had poopsocking ON THIS SERVER; even when the variance was in, when we had the "first 15 people in zone rule" are you actually believing there wouldnt be massive poopsocking with a variance on this server? This is not live, there are way more raiding guilds. We had poopsocking with variance it would be awful without one. The rules like we have right now are good. And if classic raid experience actually means you have to camp a raid target for hours (days) to get a chance to kill them, then im happy we dont have classic raiding experience here.
The problem with the 15 people rule, and whatever the fuck else was being used back in pre-kunark days was there were too many guilds and not enough mobs.

How many raid targets were there before kunark?

Inny, CT, Naggy, Vox, some sky bosses, so around 5-8 raid targets?

Now with Kunark, we have Gore, Sev, Trak, Talendor, VS, Fayd, almost double the raid targets, are guilds that greedy that they want to have everything?

Take out the variance, I'm sure the big guilds won't be able to poopsock everything, you'll have to share [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.].
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  #60  
Old 05-31-2011, 06:22 PM
Rejuvenation Rejuvenation is offline
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The system is fine the way it is, there currently is one guild that is significantly more prepared for some of the harder fights than others right now. When the other guilds catch up, there wont be as much of a monopoly.
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Last edited by Rejuvenation; 05-31-2011 at 06:24 PM..
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