Scaling Suspensions and disputing punishments

[bktroost]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But reading! Two seems harsh though for first time offenders.

I think it makes sense to have harsher rule sets in class R compared to class C. I thought it was universally understood that class C requires tactics that have a higher potential of causing infractions--kitings, ect-- which leads to less harsh punishment in this regard.

Nilbog says that kiting was a legitimate strategy on his live server and therefore is encouraged by staff. A kite gone wrong is an illegal training offense. If they encourage kiting, how can they crack down hard on training?

It makes sense if class C is the premium raiding environment. More loot, less bloating, softer punishments.

[Pint]

i like the x2 lock out and the individual player accountability, maybe ppl will think through engages instead of rushing into them in velious.

[Erati]

Originally Posted by bktroost [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It makes sense if class C is the premium raiding environment. More loot, less bloating, softer punishments.

Premium raiding environment also means that all the guilds in that tier SHOULD be well versed in the lexicon of rules we have here.
The punishments should also reflect the stakes - the highest.

Every guild that is not in Class C is by default in R- which is Chest's point for stating why he doesnt understand why R has such harsh first infractions- it will be new guilds who do not know the rules unlike the professional C raiders but get punished harder?

Thats BS.

[Pint]

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Premium raiding environment also means that all the guilds in that tier SHOULD be well versed in the lexicon of rules we have here.
The punishments should also reflect the stakes - the highest.

Every guild that is not in Class C is by default in R- which is Chest's point for stating why he doesnt understand why R has such harsh first infractions- it will be new guilds who do not know the rules unlike the professional C raiders but get punished harder?

Thats BS.

come to class C

[Erati]

Originally Posted by Pint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

come to class C

not really relevant [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Pint]

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

not really relevant [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

its incentive to join C, seems pretty relevant but i guess thats just from my side of the fence.

[Erati]

Originally Posted by Pint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

its incentive to join C, seems pretty relevant but i guess thats just from my side of the fence.

Its an incentive to let noobies in raiding have harsher punishments so they can learn to not break rules as they graduate their guild into Class C where rule breaking is so common that the punishments are more relaxed that the noob guild has to forget all the PNP stuff they just learned

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I like the direction of the rules and I dont mind at all R having harsher penalties, I was just confused like Chest about why a first time infraction was so long when Class R has lockouts. Logic and reason are very import to me and I dont see the reasoning behind this logic.

[arsenalpow]

If you want to learn the high risk strats you obviously need to work them out in class R to start, but one fuckup and someone is going to be taking a 2 month hiatus on a target. That's not really conducive to "graduating" guilds to class C nor is it a worthy carrot on a stick. "Come to class C, where the punishments don't matter" seems like a poor slogan.

[Pint]

im having trouble following both of your arguments bc youre citing noobies in raiding and guilds who are learning, but that is not at all representative of class R as a whole. class R is comprised of long standing guilds who know how everything outside of VP works. if youre afraid of the harsh penalties then you concede the mob and try again next time, everything in the new rules is focused on players being accountable and working things out among themselves, if something ends up in the staffs hands then they want to make sure the punishment is severe, which it is. staying in class R has downsides, i think the new rules reinforce that idea.

[bktroost]

Yeah, that isn't my personal extrapolation, this is a reiteration from conversations with CMs on this rule set.

My personal thought Is that we are wrong for thinking that class R is for up and coming guilds. Because the rotation is beyond top heavy with guilds that should be class C, and the GMs don't want to force people to move, Rogaen will likely remove the class system come Velious. With a time stamp on the rotation, it is not worth discussing specifics for up and coming guilds since we are the last to experience it.