Proposed amendment to Scout Roll

[kaizersoze]

You also cant be so blind as to see that if it did become a "bring your own force" type thing like say, ring war or any FTE target, why would there even be a roll anymore? It would straight up devolve into clickfest naturally because a few people wouldnt want to wait and because "muh competition." The people you're trying to reason with into not going to clickfest at that point are the same ones that sit in place or 15 hours to be the first to coth for statue / yelinak etc because rotations make you softer than charmin.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by kaizersoze [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You also cant be so blind as to see that if it did become a "bring your own force" type thing like say, ring war or any FTE target, why would there even be a roll anymore? It would straight up devolve into clickfest naturally because a few people wouldnt want to wait and because "muh competition." The people you're trying to reason with into not going to clickfest at that point are the same ones that sit in place or 15 hours to be the first to coth for statue / yelinak etc because rotations make you softer than charmin.

You seem to be willfully ignoring the possibility ... in fact, the necessity, of automated GMing to even make that scenario happen.

Scout will not suddenly have everyone (who is used to their lottery ticket system) suddenly agree with perfect consensus to switch to a "bring your own force" model! Never in a million years. The only way that will ever happen is if the staff (with a desire to make this place more classic) decides to make it happen ... and if they do, it's incredibly unlikely that they'd go back to clickfests.

Instead, if it happens it will be because the staff decided to implement some form of automated GMing, and that inherently solves the "clickfest problem" (just as another form of automated GMing, /list, does).

[LazyHydras]

Well. I tried. People want their lvl50 alts to get free pixels, so. hey. I'm done.

[Smotr]

Ya, it'd be nice to get it on mains.

[bonesaw]

Well if people stop helping naked lvl 50 rangers with the kill after they win then things will change. If people only assist say 55+ fully geared toons then maybe people will be less apt to bring naked alts.

And if the naked lvl 50’s wanna cry and petition then let them, because then rolling goes against the spirit of the agreement

[LazyHydras]

Originally Posted by bonesaw [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well if people stop helping naked lvl 50 rangers with the kill after they win then things will change. If people only assist say 55+ fully geared toons then maybe people will be less apt to bring naked alts.

And if the naked lvl 50’s wanna cry and petition then let them, because then rolling goes against the spirit of the agreement

I'll try again at the next few scout rolls, but the majority of those present are either apathetic about this issue, are the lvl50 alts in question, or turn around and threaten me to not help me if I win because I won't sit there and help 4th alt lvl50 druids and rangers.

So, we are stuck with this working, albeit imperfect, system for the time being.

[bonesaw]

Screw it, call people out. Say “just so we’re all clear if naked ass lvl 50 Soandso wins I’m not helping” and if you get petitioned then say that you didn’t agree to help. It’s not a player agreement if you don’t agree. If I’m there I’ll say “hell yeah, me neither” til people stop bringing shitty naked toons. Looking at you Howwe

[loramin]

At that point you're basically saying "I'm not going to play by the rules everyone else has agreed to" ... which seems unlikely to end well.

What I would recommend instead is trying to do a "poll" (of sorts) on the ground before the roll, and then talk to people who "vote" against you. Understand why they feel the way they do, and if your change is better then productively convince them of it.

It's not easy and it's not fun, but if you can get ten people to say "we want a change" one week, and twenty the next, eventually you can build up consensus for a change. And that's really the bar that the staff has set on implementing/changing these agreements: consensus (although they've never specified "well what if 25 people want X but 2 people don't: is that consensus?", so there's likely some wiggle room ... I suspect what they really want to see is the vast majority of players in unison).

[LazyHydras]

Useless, then. The vast majority of players want free pixels for their alts, so free pixels it is. "Democracy" wins again.

[Molitoth]

Once again, p99 is cool... but a lot of the people suck.