most underpowered class in game?

[Gustoo]

You can bet 100% that Nilbog loses sleep over how to remove item linking.

Getting bags in a trade window from a dude in gfay or freeport is the only way to go. Everything else is new school non classic BS.

Ivory - SK's and Paladins can both solo in dungeons which rangers cant. That is why rangers are the best. I quite enjoy limiting my playtime to outdoor zones exclusively and in velious with all the animals in GD and other places rangers can do quite a bit of great work.

But overall a paladin can lull his way deep into a dungeon and create single pull scenarios and bust through mobs and mana free heal himself and do it again and again while a ranger really can't hack it in a dungeon.

And much of the most valuable content in the game resides in dungeons.

so rangers are not CRAP, they are just the overall weakest class, despite their unique situational advantages.

[Gustoo]

Regarding Shroud of Death vs actual rogue sneak hide - I know that rogue sneak hide worked against regular mobs and against undead mobs in live. Originally on P99 all hide worked against both types of mobs which was bitterly missed by me when they fixed it.

But I'm sure there are some mobs that are supposed to see through sneak / hide

[Danth]

offoptic: Item links could be largely removed if the P99 admins wanted them gone. That came up during development of the P99 Green UI. The folks working on the UI proposed a means of disabling the majority of item links and the P99 admins (Nilbog and Rogean both) wanted it left in. I saw the conversation myself since I was helping out testing/etc. They feel links reduce their own staff workload due to trade scamming reduction. A few other non classic features were deliberately left in place for various reasons as well, such as some non-classicly large fonts and multiple chat windows. There are some other non-classic things left in because they either don't know how to change it or there simply wasn't time/ambition to do so, so "Why is this not classic?" amounts to something you have to answer on almost a case-by-case basis.

ontopic: I thought about this subjectc a little bit and feel it's harder to pick out a "most" under-powered character because there are several classes that might warrant that term in various aspects of the game. No one class sticks out so dramatically as enchanters do on the overpowered side of the spectrum. I tend to be down on Wizards but even those do pretty well for a subset of folks who simply want to level up solo then raid.

Danth

[Ivory]

Originally Posted by Gustoo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ivory - SK's and Paladins can both solo in dungeons which rangers cant. That is why rangers are the best. I quite enjoy limiting my playtime to outdoor zones exclusively and in velious with all the animals in GD and other places rangers can do quite a bit of great work.

It really depends which dungeon. SKs are the best for dungeon soloing, since they can FD off problems and invis and invis to undead to have a range of options.

But paladins are really only going to be able to solo in undead dungeons. Where they can single or double pull.... and burst damage if they need to. And invis to where they need to go to set up for some easy pulls.

And that's true with ranger also. Like going to cazic a ranger could do pretty easily (outdoor, so harmony + invis, do gators or something).

So I would put ranger dungeoning at the level of paladins. Both able to root control (with ranger having superior multi-mob ability, since if you can root it you can bow rot it down... so one or two mobs is no problem for a ranger). Relying on pacify alone would be really risky for a paladin. I would pacify solo as a cleric, and without gate it would be a lottt more of a problem with critical fails.

But, while they may be about equal in a dungeon.... a ranger is FARRRR better outdoors. Making it their playground. A ranger can easily level up to 50 while soloing (and doing it effectively).

And they can even get some good EXP after 50 soloing. Where as paladins are going to start having a lot rougher time with harder hitting mobs. Soloing in karnors, for example, is a lot harder for a paladin than a ranger.

End of day,

Paladin = Great grouping, mid-low soloability (indoors, no fear kite makes them bad outdoors)

SK = Good grouping, mid-high soloability (indoors + outdoors)

Rangers = Great grouping, very high soloability (outdoors)

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Ivory [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It really depends which dungeon. SKs are the best for dungeon soloing, since they can FD off problems and invis and invis to undead to have a range of options.

But paladins are really only going to be able to solo in undead dungeons. Where they can single or double pull.... and burst damage if they need to. And invis to where they need to go to set up for some easy pulls.

And that's true with ranger also. Like going to cazic a ranger could do pretty easily (outdoor, so harmony + invis, do gators or something).

So I would put ranger dungeoning at the level of paladins. Both able to root control (with ranger having superior multi-mob ability, since if you can root it you can bow rot it down... so one or two mobs is no problem for a ranger). Relying on pacify alone would be really risky for a paladin. I would pacify solo as a cleric, and without gate it would be a lottt more of a problem with critical fails.

But, while they may be about equal in a dungeon.... a ranger is FARRRR better outdoors. Making it their playground. A ranger can easily level up to 50 while soloing (and doing it effectively).

And they can even get some good EXP after 50 soloing. Where as paladins are going to start having a lot rougher time with harder hitting mobs. Soloing in karnors, for example, is a lot harder for a paladin than a ranger.

End of day,

Paladin = Great grouping, mid-low soloability (indoors, no fear kite makes them bad outdoors)

SK = Good grouping, mid-high soloability (indoors + outdoors)

Rangers = Great grouping, very high soloability (outdoors)

I disagree a bit about this assessment regarding Paladins and Rangers. Paladins can do dungeon crawling in any place where you can lull to progress. It is slower than FD, and can be more consequential if you fail, but you can get through mobs via lull spamming. Since you have a lull clickie as a Paladin, you aren't even wasting mana. If you do screw up, you can basically Divine Aura and run out of the dungeon. Just be careful of training people. Also, if you are level 60, dying isn't a huge deal due to having a 90% res.

Rangers can't do dungeons because their lull only works outdoors, but a Paladin doesn't have that restriction. That is why Rangers are generally the worst dungeoneers of the Hybrids, because some of their most important kit options are outdoors only.

Generally speaking I would say SK's are better at dungeon diving when speed is the key, and where you can't lull. If you can lull and have all day to play, a Paladin can dungeon dive just fine.

SK's are generally better anywhere where you can fear kite, because that is safer and faster than face tanking and healing. Paladins have the edge whenever you are fighting something that cannot be fear kited.

[Loadsamoney]

I would argue Paladins solo better than SK's solely on the grounds of their healing spells. Makes them much more self sufficient in combat and able to win out lengthy battles of attrition that they otherwise couldn't survive on one health bar. Their HoT's are especially juicy considering their HP to Mana ratio, and that combined with Superior Heal is enough of a spike heal even at 60 to give them all the staying power they need and even make decent secondary healers.

SK's have better DPS but their life leech isn't nearly enough to offset the damage they receive at later levels. And while I play a Ranger, I haven't yet gotten Chloroplast, so I can't weigh in if the regen from that spell is enough to significantly cut down on either incomnig damage or downtime between battles.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Loadsamoney [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would argue Paladins solo better than SK's solely on the grounds of their healing spells. Makes them much more self sufficient in combat and able to win out lengthy battles of attrition that they otherwise couldn't survive on one health bar. Their HoT's are especially juicy considering their HP to Mana ratio, and that combined with Superior Heal is enough of a spike heal even at 60 to give them all the staying power they need and even make decent secondary healers.

A fear kiting SK doesn't take many hits though <3

[Keebz]

Probably Paladin or SK or Druid.

SKs are like really great in solo/group contexts and are actually strong in certain raid zones like PoF, so I have trouble saying they are under powered per se. Druid gets ports, SoW and Charm animal, so they can solo well enough and get to port, sow and spot heal raids. As for pallies, on raids you still want 1 or 2 to DS and Soulfire people--DA can also be useful, and you're a slightly better ramp tank than SK, though can't do the tagging and flopping. Solo I hear Paladins can do stuff at the top end, but I've never seen it.

I'd say leveling up, it's probably Paladin. At the high end, probably Druid.

All of the classes played well can be perfectly useful though and they all have their niches.

Honorable mentions:
Ranger: saved by WS and not doing wet noodle DPS. It's always nice to see rangers at raids and they can track and FTE race and solo a little. They have a solid niche.
Wizard: saved by flux staff and TL. For 32k dragons they also truck, but the most useful thing they do is kite and move people around at instant speed. Wizards are lowkey important for high end raiding here.

[Tunabros]

probably warrior

they are weak as shit without gear

and they are the most gear dependent class in game

their job is to just soak damage/keep aggro on raids

[socialist]

Originally Posted by Loadsamoney [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would argue Paladins solo better than SK's solely on the grounds of their healing spells. Makes them much more self sufficient in combat and able to win out lengthy battles of attrition that they otherwise couldn't survive on one health bar. Their HoT's are especially juicy considering their HP to Mana ratio, and that combined with Superior Heal is enough of a spike heal even at 60 to give them all the staying power they need and even make decent secondary healers.

SK's have better DPS but their life leech isn't nearly enough to offset the damage they receive at later levels. And while I play a Ranger, I haven't yet gotten Chloroplast, so I can't weigh in if the regen from that spell is enough to significantly cut down on either incomnig damage or downtime between battles.

I mean, if both classes just facetank mobs to death, I'm sure a paladin is better. It's just that SKs don't solo that way. Fear kiting is much more efficient than facetanking mobs and healing afterwards, and from level 45 onwards, SKs can fear kite for free with two cheap clickies. Even if a paladin uses Deepwater Helm to heal for free, this takes so long that I suspect the SK will achieve a higher kills/hour. Then add the immense utility of FD and instant invis, and suddenly the SK is a genuinely decent soloer while paladin remains barely good enough to be worth doing it at all. Paladins only solo better if it's inside a densely populated dungeon where you can't really fear kite, and then I'm not sure a paladin has any business going around soloing in dungeons unless it's a twinked alt fucking around in Kaesora or something.