Game Mechanics: Kazon Stormhammer giving insufficient faction hits

[Harkor]

Originally Posted by Rais [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He was hardly if ever killed in kunark. After we cleared VP for the first time(server wide) we decided to go on a rampage of all the city leaders. Took about 15 people or so, and it was rough killing them. A monk and shaman shouldn't be able to kill him now. We NEVER farmed him for faction during the entire time of Kunark.

As for the hits, you guys are posting info from 2001+. It's getting out of hand people taking posts from people during 2001+ time period and trying to apply it to Classic Kunark.

Nor should we be able to 1 shot all the VP dragons with 33....but we can. You never farming the king for faction has little relevance to whether or not others did. The problem we have is the fact no one shared information back then so other guilds would not get the upper hand....so if noobs werent posting it on Zam it didnt get posted.

[Shiftin]

Originally Posted by Harkor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nor should we be able to 1 shot all the VP dragons with 33....but we can. You never farming the king for faction has little relevance to whether or not others did. The problem we have is the fact no one shared information back then so other guilds would not get the upper hand....so if noobs werent posting it on Zam it didnt get posted.

This is a key point. Proof "in absentia" of something not existing is not proof of anything other than people not posting it in a place you can find it now 11 years later.

There are two scenarios here:
Scenario 1:
The faction hits were always this way, they just weren't used or well known until 2001 when VP was being regularly farmed on all servers. There's no real reason to kill city leaders other than for fun as they dropped nothing and tend to screw your faction for no real reason, so him having huge faction hits that were unknown to most people, especially the type of person who freely shared information on sites like everlore is perfectly reasonable.

Supporting this is that you have 2 people in this thread alone who used Kazon to fix VP faction in late kunark / early velious era, as well as plenty of evidence that by luclin, this is clearly how it worked.

Scenario 2:
Kazon was significantly harder and gave no faction hits until just before luclin. Everyone here saying we farmed him for faction is lying. He was changed to give large faction hits despite no quests being introduced that involved him or required RoS faction. He was made EASIER to kill despite still having no drops or reason to kill him. Your evidence for this change you aren't arguing actually happened, you just think theoretically happened, is that there isn't detailed information about a mob no one had a reason to kill on sites which are missing massive amounts of information about tons of things in the world anyway.


Also, go ahead and do 4000/200. It's 20. Do 11x200+350. It's 2550. 2550 above max scowls is not still KOS. You clearly know that already. I have no idea what you're trying to prove there.

[Heebee]

Originally Posted by Uthgaard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And where did anything (other than you, but you said velious, get your own made up story right) say that he was killed in Kunark at all, let alone with such a small force?

Originally Posted by Heebee [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I went with a small group at level 60 during kunark (pre-velious) on live and killed Kazon

Originally Posted by Dictionary.com

pre-
 
a prefix occurring originally in loanwords from Latin, where it meant “before” (preclude; prevent); applied freely as a prefix, with the meanings “prior to,” “in advance of,” “early,” “beforehand,” “before,” “in front of,” and with other figurative meanings (preschool; prewar; prepay; preoral; prefrontal).

Originally Posted by Uthgaard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can insult my reading skills all you like

Pardon? My post said "during kunark (pre-velious)". Get your own made up troll attempt right.

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by Uthgaard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was hoping you'd point that out. Ask Cyrano below. It was his notion that he was a raid secret, not mine. And where did anything (other than you, but you said velious, get your own made up story right) say that he was killed in Kunark at all, let alone with such a small force?






I'm not sure what was difficult about that for you, but those are two sentences that say the exact same thing.

You can drag all of your guildmates to the forum to make personal attacks against me all you like. You're not going to hurt my feelings. Your evidence is all from 2002 and later, not 2001 and 2002 as you try to sneak that year in by association.




Not only is your faction data from Dranik's Scar, by this you've shown that you're only arguing for a change to benefit you regardless of what the actual data truly says. If you got a 200 point faction hit, you would not get the result you're asking for. Go ahead and open calc.exe, 4000/200. I'll give you a hint. It's the same as 40/2.

Kazon didn't have any relevance to Ring of Scale until a faction hit was discovered and most likely introduced in 2002. Ring of Scale was introduced with Kunark and retroactively introduced to some classic mobs. Kazon didn't start with that faction hit at launch, so it clearly was added at some point. However, you have nothing to support that his hit even exists before 2002. You can skip forward through the dates and see all of the mobs that gave a Ring of Scale faction hit. Guess who is missing.

http://web.archive.org/web/200108241...ml?faction=103

Dude seriously just go away. I never said he was raid content, based on what you took from what I said then any item, camp, or faction that potentially gives an advantage while raiding = raid content.

Where do you have proof that Kazon didn't start with a faction hit at launch? We've posted comments from Zam showing discussion that he gave a ~200 point faction hit prior to 2002 and yet you say it's from the wrong era (whatever the fuck Draknik's Scar is) when it was made during Velious. It doesn't matter if it was 10 days or 2000 years before the release of Luclin the fact is it was made BEFORE Luclin.

We post documentation which leads to a credible assumption to be made about what amount of faction he should currently give and you "refute" it with nothing but opinion and slander.

With you saying "I hope you would say that" it's like you're playing some crazy cloak and dagger game trying to bait us into saying the wrong thing. That implies you don't care about the truth so long as we're shown as being wrong. If that's the case then go away.

[Cyrano]

BTW from your link here is info on the King of Ak'Anon difficulty.

I watched him die By: Ilvatarer
Posted @ Tue, May 9th 11:38 AM 2000 Score: Decent[3.25]
I saw three lvl51 necros, a lvl49 troll sk and two barbarians kill him last night, they cleared out his palace and slaughtered him. They made him seem very easy to kill, he didn't drop much through and when they killed him he was partialy stuck in the wall so not sure what form he was in.. I think human through.

If info posted from the timeline you deem credible about another city leader matches our information about Kazon then I choose to believe our information is accurate.

Also note the date, this is after Kunark released thus the level cap seems accurate. Just so you don't try to say I'm excluding information:

not level 50 By: Gaeelae,
12 posts
Posted @ Wed, May 30th 9:45 AM 2001 Score: Decent[3.00]
he's red to level 57. not level 50.

This is well after the release of Velious. As such, there was clearly a level change somewhere during Kunark and Velious. This leads me to believe that it was changed because farming faction was too easy or, more likely, they scaled them because having individual players be stronger than city leaders makes no sense from a role playing standpoint.

Just because there isn't info on Kazon from that webpage doesn't mean it was non-existent. The reason we thought he would give this faction is based on first hand information from people in our guild, like Heebee, saying they used him for faction during Kunark. Like I said, information that gave guilds a raid competitive advantage was often protected and not posted in the open. DO NOT CONSTRUE THIS AS ME SAYING HE'S A RAID MOB, all I am saying is that his faction modifier gave a competitive advantage.

[Cyrano]

Here's another interesting post from Alla:

Collection of Lords
QuoteReply
# Mar 20 2005 at 3:20 PM Rating: Excellent
Helpnot
Sage
**
386 posts
Here are the rulers of every town that have rulers (this does not include fighting areas such as BlackBurrow, and does not include Yekisha+)
King Kazon Stormhammer � 50 war - Kaladim
Sir Lucan D�Lere � 48 war � Freeport
Qeynos � Antonius Bale (missing)
Kane Bayle/ Commander Kane � War 61 � Qeynos Catacombs/ North
Mayor Gubbin � 50 war � Rivervale
Mammoth � 20 to 25 war � Surefall Glade
Overlord Virate Manaar � 50 SK � Paineel
King Ak�Anon � 60 War � Ak�Anon
Dain Frostreaver IV � 70 War � Icewell Keep
King Tormax � 70 War � Kael Drakkel
Lord Yelinak � 70 Hybrid � Skyshrine
Lcea Katta � 60 Hybrid � Katta Castellum
Lord Inquisitor Seru � 66 War � Sanctus Seru
King Raja Kerrath � 65 War � Shar Vahl


In 2005 he was still 50 so I no longer think he was made harder but simply that his faction was lowered near the time of the VP revamp.

[Motec]

The best part of this is Uthtard just sees TR, and sees red. I hope he got his TMO char banned.

I for one am a forgiving son of a bitch though who does not hold much of a grudge, so would be happy to see some of my donation money put towards him seeing a therapist.

[booter]

WTB a real dev's response to this. And also guineapig to clean up/ban Uth for flaming~

[Flunklesnarkin]

So to sum up.. last 3 pages people have been arguing semantics..

but either way.. dude shouldn't still be KoS after all the kills..

so bug... yes

[Motec]

The problem:
Killing king does not give enough faction mods.

The solution:
Increase faction modifier a LOT.

Uthgaard:
Mob is too easy, mob is too hard, mob faction changed 3 years later to less, I cant read, I have trouble comprehending legible posts with plenty of evidence to go with anecdotal evidence.

Christ man.....