Green99 pro strats and early game goals

[NachtMystium]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

classic: The best version of the game.
Kunark: Good balanced expansion, bad art direction.
velious: Broken expansion with zones that are too big/poorly designed, Unbalanced totally over powered items, and a singular focus on toxic end game raiding and toxic players.

Prove me wrong.

Wow new record. The toxic word didn’t get said until page 7. Not bad but let’s keep trying to improve on that guys.

Also, horrible opinions on the expansions. See you on green

[Jibartik]

Nact if people keep saying the word toxic around you it might not be them.

c u there!

[Jimjam]

Jibber, I agree with you mate! Pre Temple of Sol Ro itemisation was the bomb!

[Endonde]

Originally Posted by Halfcell [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Planes of Power was indeed all of those things, but Velious is what started it all. All PoP really did was expand and improve on what Velious invented.

Also, PoP was pretty much the expansion that killed EQ too. The gear-inflation was so bad it made all previous expansions obsolete in a way that Velious and even Luclin didn't.

Even deep into Luclin there were still items out of VP that were basically as good as VT loot. Not many, but some. PoP destroyed everything before it, and started the precedent of "new expansion, all your old shit sucks" that plagues EQ to this day.

I dunno if you have really looked at the gear differences between Kunark, and Velious.

Velious really got the ball rolling on gear inflation, you went from barely any items near 100 hp or mana, to pretty much every slot being 100 hp/mana. Kunark the gear gap wasn't really that bad and most of the power creep that did exist was because of the 10 level increase and the spells that came with that.

Just look at the differences between a nearly BiS Kunark monk, and a BiS Velious monk

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Hokushin

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_...dfist_End_Game

I know it isn't a popular opinion around these parts but Velious is a really shitty expansion, it doesn't offer much outside of raiding which to me is the worst part of Everquest, Luclin and Kunark are far superior, even PoP which was primarily a raiding expansion similar to Velious made the raiding seem like a journey, rather than Velious which is just oh look here are a bunch of dragons for you!

[Halfcell]

Originally Posted by Endonde [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I dunno if you have really looked at the gear differences between Kunark, and Velious.

Velious really got the ball rolling on gear inflation, you went from barely any items near 100 hp or mana, to pretty much every slot being 100 hp/mana. Kunark the gear gap wasn't really that bad and most of the power creep that did exist was because of the 10 level increase and the spells that came with that.

Just look at the differences between a nearly BiS Kunark monk, and a BiS Velious monk

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Hokushin

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_...dfist_End_Game

I know it isn't a popular opinion around these parts but Velious is a really shitty expansion, it doesn't offer much outside of raiding which to me is the worst part of Everquest, Luclin and Kunark are far superior, even PoP which was primarily a raiding expansion similar to Velious made the raiding seem like a journey, rather than Velious which is just oh look here are a bunch of dragons for you!

Well, I mean you could make the same case for classic to kunark though. The difference between a character in full PoHate gear even you leveled him to 60, and a character in full Kunark BiS is extreme. It is the nature of expansions to make your character better through new gear.

My point, though, is that Velious didn't make everything you did in previous expansions obsolete. You can see it today, Aftermath and Riot still go kill mobs in Hate and Fear, hell the races for Fear Golems or Draco at 3am on a Wednesday get downright heated.

Once PoP came out there was no reason to ever go back to a previous expansion, except for maybe 1 or 2 clickies out of Vex Thal. Everything was obsolete. It was the first EQ expansion to do that.

[zodium]

Originally Posted by Endonde [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I dunno if you have really looked at the gear differences between Kunark, and Velious.

Velious really got the ball rolling on gear inflation, you went from barely any items near 100 hp or mana, to pretty much every slot being 100 hp/mana. Kunark the gear gap wasn't really that bad and most of the power creep that did exist was because of the 10 level increase and the spells that came with that.

Just look at the differences between a nearly BiS Kunark monk, and a BiS Velious monk

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Hokushin

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_...dfist_End_Game

I know it isn't a popular opinion around these parts but Velious is a really shitty expansion, it doesn't offer much outside of raiding which to me is the worst part of Everquest, Luclin and Kunark are far superior, even PoP which was primarily a raiding expansion similar to Velious made the raiding seem like a journey, rather than Velious which is just oh look here are a bunch of dragons for you!

I like the part where you handwave adding 10 levels to literally everyone away as less significant to power creep than a particular class of top-end Velious gear that most people will never see.

This analysis is sound, very sound, maybe one of the soundest ever. I definitely believe you at least did a cursory sanity check to see if your gut feelings actually make sense before sharing them with us here.

[Endonde]

Originally Posted by Halfcell [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well, I mean you could make the same case for classic to kunark though. The difference between a character in full PoHate gear even you leveled him to 60, and a character in full Kunark BiS is extreme. It is the nature of expansions to make your character better through new gear.

My point, though, is that Velious didn't make everything you did in previous expansions obsolete. You can see it today, Aftermath and Riot still go kill mobs in Hate and Fear, hell the races for Fear Golems or Draco at 3am on a Wednesday get downright heated.

Once PoP came out there was no reason to ever go back to a previous expansion, except for maybe 1 or 2 clickies out of Vex Thal. Everything was obsolete. It was the first EQ expansion to do that.

The difference in Kunark gear and Classic gear is not nearly as large as the Velious to Kunark gap. I just threw together a Magelo page for a Pre-Kunark Monk it definitely isnt BiS since I just threw it together mostly off the wiki gear suggestions but it's close enough. Resist choices are pretty limited in both expansions for monks and you often had to choose either resists or hp, so my monk is mostly geared for hp because the Kunark monk I chose is also mostly geared for hp.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Red:Planar_monk

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Hokushin

The Kunark monk gains a whopping 300 hp, 50 ac, and 65 MR. Now lets compare that to what the Velious monk gains over his Kunark counterpart, the Velious monk gains 1600 hp, 450 ac, and 85 Magic resist (enough for him to reach cap with his clicky flower). The Velious monk doesn't have to choose if he wants resists or hp, he easily obtains both, It's also important to note that the only Kunark item that the Velious monk wears is his epic, while the Kunark monk wears 8 seperate pieces of gear from Classic.

The idea of comparing P99 guilds and their desire to kill old content versus live guilds desire to kill old content is pretty disingenuous. P99 guilds kill everything because the turn over on this server is really huge, and there is never a shortage of people who need gear, So you have to go get that gear from any source available, and on live if a guild clearing PoP needed to recruit players they could typically poach new members from the raiding guilds doing Luclin or Velious content. There is also the issue that P99 guilds are about 3 times the size of a normal live guild so even if you kill every Velious dragon it isn't enough to gear all of your members. Also players on live weren't nearly as geared as the players on P99 so the power creep probably appeared less severe on live but on P99 where we are stuck in Velious forever the difference between Kunark and Velious gear becomes incredibly clear.

Velious was a bad expansion sorry.

Originally Posted by zodium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I like the part where you handwave adding 10 levels to literally everyone away as less significant to power creep than a particular class of top-end Velious gear that most people will never see.

This analysis is sound, very sound, maybe one of the soundest ever. I definitely believe you at least did a cursory sanity check to see if your gut feelings actually make sense before sharing them with us here.

I'm not really saying the 10 levels doesn't contribute to power creep, it certainly does, Torpor alone is absolutely insane power creep. I'm just saying that power creep didn't just randomly take off in Luclin and PoP.

[zodium]

Originally Posted by Endonde [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not really saying the 10 levels doesn't contribute to power creep, it certainly does, Torpor alone is absolutely insane power creep.

you think so?? wow, maybe Actually, Velious Bad Because Power Creep doesn't make as much sense as those 10,000 words you just wrote might otherwise suggest

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by Legidias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

>Not making a mage coalition to bum rush content

Illusion mask is pimp item to use even way past velious for bragging rights on your DE monk.

Manastone has limited usability in old world only, and basically is just for wiz / druid

You know about complete heal and stone for cleric I hope

[Jibartik]

Originally Posted by Halfcell [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well, I mean you could make the same case for classic to kunark though. The difference between a character in full PoHate gear even you leveled him to 60, and a character in full Kunark BiS is extreme. It is the nature of expansions to make your character better through new gear.

Well I beg to differ, gear in classic and fear/hate were regularlly raided during kunark for end game players, if you look at warrior bis in kunark at leastg 3 items are pre kunark, while if you look at bis warrior velious 0 are. And that's an almost unfair take because they wear pure AC and that is the one stat kunark bumped with class armor, so thats with a full set of colbot, if you want stats, you're going to be wearing 3-5 more peaces of classic blazing ro or hate armor. I mean just look at the monk linked above, its wearing like 90% classic gearz.

Which brings me to my next nerdy point...

Originally Posted by zodium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I like the part where you handwave adding 10 levels to literally everyone away as less significant to power creep than a particular class of top-end Velious gear that most people will never see.

The difference between levels and gear is that levels do not make entire zones irrelevant, if you still need the gear from those zones, then you still need to go back to get it, even if you're high level. High level farming is what EQ is virtually all about next to raiding for end game players.

After velious almost 90-100% of classic itemization that is not a rechargable click, is virtually useless.

when you jump the HPs up from +10 to +25, its not unrealistic that a raider would still wear the +10 HP item, but if you jump them from +25 to +100, a raider would be a trash can if they were wearing the +10 item.

levels =/= gearing in terms of devaluing older expansions. Levels will trivialize older content but gear can make it outright irrelevant.

That siad I think Kunark was also a bit too powerful (just not as over powered as velious was) If it were up to me, Kunark would be a level 55 expansion that would have made it perfection, and velious would be the level 60 one.