most underpowered class in game?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What? You've never cycled rods before?

Your lack of raid experience is shining through yet again.

I have plenty of times lol. I didn't say you can't do it, or raids don't. Not sure how you read my post. It's simply harder than using twitch. This isn't rocket science. Pressing 1 button (Twitch) is easier than pressing 1 button (Summon Rod), dropping a rod, picking up a rod, hoping people don't sit on top of the rods, coordinating the raid to pick up all the rods, etc. The only lack of experience here seems to be yourself if you have never seen problems with rods.

As just one example, I have had people block my ability to pick up rods while I was in a CH chain for AoW. Stuff like this does happen, even in the top guilds. It's not always easy to control 100+ people just by guild and voice chat hehe.

You also can't use or pick up mod rods while casting spells, which is another reason why Twitch is better. You can get mana at any time. Complete Heal has a long cast time, so you have long periods where you can't use mod rods, and some CH chains are quite fast (like AoW).

[Toxigen]

Either way, you can have both rods and twitch. Pretty silly to argue that mod rods aren't worth it because wall-lickers can't mouse over and click pixels.

The only place SK really shines over other classes on p99 raids is pulling off the bard kite in PoG (Fear too I suppose) and yo-yo aggro on enchanter pets for tunare. Trash clears and tunare can/has been done without SKs just fine, but they certainly do a great job there.

Rangers can bump, mages coth, and paladins bring DS / soulfire. The answer is still SK for most underpowered. Sorry you play a SK and can't lay an argument to rest. The fact of the matter is a top-tier raid guild could have zero SKs and wouldn't be at any disadvantage, ever. The same cannot be said for any other class.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Either way, you can have both rods and twitch. Pretty silly to argue that mod rods aren't worth it because wall-lickers can't mouse over and click pixels.

The only place SK really shines over other classes on p99 raids is pulling off the bard kite in PoG (Fear too I suppose) and yo-yo aggro on enchanter pets for tunare. Trash clears and tunare can/has been done without SKs just fine, but they certainly do a great job there.

Rangers can bump, mages coth, and paladins bring DS / soulfire. The answer is still SK for most underpowered. Sorry you play a SK and can't lay an argument to rest. The fact of the matter is a top-tier raid guild could have zero SKs and wouldn't be at any disadvantage, ever. The same cannot be said for any other class.

I am not arguing SK's are good in raids lol. I have said many times on this forum SK's are the worst raiding class, and have never said otherwise.

Again, you are off topic. The question is not "most underpowered raiding class".

I also never said you can't have both Rods and Twitch lol, or that Mod Rods aren't worth it. Not sure what you are reading. Literally nothing you have said is on topic, or in response to what I have been saying.

Z was off topic discussing which classes could be deleted. You can delete a Mage and raiding would still work fine, it would just be a bit slower without CoTH and Mod Rods. There is no raid content that needs either. You can kill AoW without Mod Rods and CoTH. I have seen this.

[Crede]

Here's my synopsis of this thread:

DeathsSilkyMist is notorious for instigating long, drawn out threads typically from a subjective claim that he will say was solved by "math". He will gladly go 500+ pages in a thread to attempt to "win" to get his point across, despite the overwhelming majority disagreeing with him. His presentation is what annoys most people, due to the arrogant connotation that usually comes along with it, even if doesn't specifically mean to do so(or he could be the most well disguised troll on these forums).

His claim to mages being the most underpowered class is basically the reason we all have many alts. There's a better raiding class, there's a better grouping class, there are better solo classes. But when you look at the full scope of the game, a mage is quite good, despite their lack of cc/utility/etc. They can blow through content that can take "utility" classes much longer to do, because of their superior pets, nukes, DS, etc. Sure, you see more rogues in the raid scene, but that doesn't make them a more powerful class. A Mage overall simply has more areas where they can exert their power. And to me that's what being overpowered/underpowered is all about. How much power does your toolkit give you in every area of the game?

There's no right answer to this thread, it's all subjective, I think most would generally agree it's not a mage though. I think Loraen's class selection guide is a pretty accurate description of average class rating, since he actually considers all aspects of the game, and mage actually falls in the top 5, despite them been supposedly useless at 60 and not caring about what the class was intended for. That's the thing about being overpowered/underpowered. It wasn't necessarily an intention, but it happened anyway.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here's my synopsis of this thread:

DeathsSilkyMist is notorious for instigating long, drawn out threads typically from a subjective claim that he will say was solved by "math". He will gladly go 500+ pages in a thread to attempt to "win" to get his point across, despite the overwhelming majority disagreeing with him. His presentation is what annoys most people, due to the arrogant connotation that usually comes along with it, even if doesn't specifically mean to do so(or he could be the most well disguised troll on these forums).

His claim to mages being the most underpowered class is basically the reason we all have many alts. There's a better raiding class, there's a better grouping class, there are better solo classes. But when you look at the full scope of the game, a mage is quite good, despite their lack of cc. They can blow through content that can take "utility" classes much longer to do, because of their superior pets, nukes, DS, etc. Sure, you see more rogues in the raid scene, but they were designed for this. That doesn't make them a more powerful class. A Mage overall simply has more areas where they can exert their power. And to me that's what being overpowered/underpowered is all about. How much power does your toolkit give you in every area of the game?

There's no right answer to this thread, it's all subjective, I think most would generally agree it's not a mage though. I think Loraen's class selection guide is a pretty accurate description of average class rating, since he actually considers all aspects of the game, and mage actually falls in the top 5, despite them been supposedly useless at 60 and not caring about what the class was intended for. That's the thing about being overpowered/underpowered. It wasn't necessarily an intention, but it happened anyway.

Untrue. I never claimed it was objective fact either, since nobody has the data[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] The problem is simply people do not stay on topic, and don't like admitting classes they enjoy aren't as good as they think. They also falsely assume "underpowered" = bad. This is wrong.

I know it is an easy excuse to blame things on some imaginary personality flaw of another person, but it simply isn't true. I am sorry you can't make good arguments without attacking people's character.

A Mage's toolkit is limited due to lack of CC. Period. They become worse and worse as you gain higher levels because of this. There is a reason why Shamans and Enchanters are so good at soloing. Utility and CC are a critical part of this game, more-so than DPS. If this wasn't the case, you could power through WW Dragons with pure DPS while soloing. This is why you don't see level 60 Mages that often in the wild. Their lack of CC and Utility catches up to them at high levels, when you can't just power through with DPS (especially since Mage Pet DPS isn't top tier). OP isn't asking "which class can level quickly?". Not everybody simply levels a class and then quits them immediately.

And just because the "majority" disagrees with someone, doesn't mean they are wrong, this is a fallacy.

People getting annoyed is irrelevant. We are here to give people the best information we can so they can play the game properly. If you are providing bad information, that needs to be stopped, so people can get the correct information. Nobody cares if your feelings are hurt because of a discussion on a 22 year old Elf Sim.

EDIT: I'll take back the math part. While I don't believe I invoked it yet in this discussion, you obviously could math this out with the data and statistics on how people play. Every computer application is based on math too. But we don't have the data, so there isn't much we can do on that front.

[zelld52]

This thread is 44 pages long. Lmfao.

I think underpowered is warrior. They have the least amount of utility. I Love warrior too, but warrior requires a whole bunch of support from other classes in order to get anything done.

Rogue is in the same category, needs a group (tank) to be effective. But hide / sneak and pick locks put them above warrior in their abilities levelling, questing, exploring, etc.

[Allishia]

Originally Posted by zelld52 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This thread is 44 pages long. Lmfao.

I think underpowered is warrior. They have the least amount of utility. I Love warrior too, but warrior requires a whole bunch of support from other classes in order to get anything done.

Rogue is in the same category, needs a group (tank) to be effective. But hide / sneak and pick locks put them above warrior in their abilities levelling, questing, exploring, etc.

War is not under powered at all, rogue maybe but not war [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[zelld52]

Originally Posted by Allishia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

War is not under powered at all, rogue maybe but not war [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

are we assuming every class were talking about is level 60 with NToV gear? because then youre right, warrior is a beast.

but levelling, questing, exploring -- warrior falls far below just about any other class. even cleric is more powerful than warrior (if you dont have to kill the mob and just need to not die). for me, warrior coming in as most underpwoered comes down to what a class can do solo, because p99 is a low population with scarce numbers across the levelling zones 1-50

warrior cant crawl through a dungeon killing stuff as effectively as a monk, sk, paladin, enchanter, mage, necro, shaman.

warrior cant get aggro in groups as good as a ranger, paladin, sk.

warrior cant travel with the ease of a druid, shaman, ranger, bard, wizard.

warrior cant provide any support in a group like a cleric, shaman, druid, bard, enchanter, paladin, ranger.

warrior cant sneak into KoS zones like a monk, rogue, ranger, druid, SK, necro, shaman, enchanter, wizard, bard., mage

warrior cant do the DPS of a rogue, monk, enchanter, wizard, mage

warrior can tank raid mobs without dying to quad attacks and rampage.

i mained a warrior from 2001-2005, its one of my favorite classes. but on a low pop server like p99, its really underpowered.

[zelld52]

i do think though, warrior is more able to survive than rogue, so maybe rogue the paper tiger is the most underpowered.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I do agree Warriors are lower on the totem pole. I myself mained a Warrior on live in the Classic to Velious timeline and beyond. But they are so necessary in this timeline due to their discs that I believe that pulls them ahead of Rogues and Mages. You could get rid of Rogues and Mages and still clear all content on P99. You probably couldn't do all content on P99 without Warriors, unless maybe you have an insane zerg like 200+ people.